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Sidhe Possession, Changeling Way Ritual, the Non-sidhe Arcadians, and Reincarnation

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  • Nyrufa
    replied
    Originally posted by Eldagusto View Post
    Uhhh kept erasing this as I wrote it because the tab kept getting misclicked...

    So we need more info on Sidhe Possession. Wouldn't most Changelings be aligned against Sidhe because they are Bodysnatchers who steal a body and do Tuatha knows what with the soul?

    To what end would opposing them serve? The other kiths already tried to stand against the Sidhe, and they lost because the Dreaming gave the nobles its full support.

    Besides, if the Sidhe are body snatchers, then the commoners are soul eaters. The Changeling Way causes them to merge with their host's spirit, becoming a single being.

    Which scenario do you find more terrifying? Having your spirit deposited into a dream world paradise, or having your very identity assimilated by another being?

    And on top of that, Arcadian Sidhe only take ONE host during their time on earth. Autumn Sidhe and Commoners take dozens, hundreds, maybe even thousands of hosts throughout their numerous reincarnations.

    If anything, the Sidhe are the lesser of two evils!
    Last edited by Nyrufa; 07-11-2018, 07:19 PM.

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  • mattboggan
    replied
    Originally posted by Eldagusto View Post
    Does anyone know what happens with the soul? I seem to recall something about them being tithed to Arcadia. In my headcanon they are sent to Arcadia, a tithe, and turned into a form of Changelings. This may make Sidhe more like traditional changelings switching with a mortal.
    The souls of mortals displaced by sidhe are taken to Arcadia by the keremet (see DotD).

    In the Shadow Court book, it is explained that the Tithe was paid to the Underworld before the Shattering by the fae on the night of Samhain. It was the result of the Pact between Arcadia and the Shadowlands (see also Dreams & Nightmares). The Tithe was paid to maintain open the Bright Road, the road that fae took when they sensed that they were "old" and ready to begin a new life. It would allow them to start again in the spring of their existence. With the Shattering the Tithe was forgotten.

    My take on this is that despite being forgotten, the Tithe is still active. Changelings do reincarnate, having cheated death with the Changeling Way Ritual (see the post on the Arcadian and Autumn sidhe). However, Arcadian changelings, having not undergone the CWR, are taken as tithe to the Shadowlands when they die. This is why they don't return. Or maybe transformed...

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  • mattboggan
    replied
    Originally posted by Eldagusto View Post
    And what happens when they possess a body, do they immediately chrysalis? Do they fall into the mists and memories of the body, and to everyone else they seem like the host just had a change of personality, once again like the traditional changeling concept of someones child looking the same but being different.
    It depends. In several books, many were lost to the Mists due to the Banality chock they experienced, while in other cases their faerie mien emerged immediately. The explanation is tied to the place where they emerged, I suppose. If their mortal host was near a trod or freehold, I guess they would be able not to fall into the Mists.

    Originally posted by Eldagusto View Post
    As it stands we don't really have much of a good reason why the Sidhe didn't perform the Ritual en masse upon returning. I guess doing it properly means you are reborn into a baby, so I can see fear of kinda death happening, but the fact they can die for real is terrifying. Do we have more discussion? What do mosst Sidhe Believe? I think some think they return to Arcadia but that just seems a leap of faith. Since its been decades since the Resurgence if we weren't getting Sidhe returning every now and then it would be very noticeable as they die out. Before we had Autumn Sidhe in C20 they seemed to disappear except Scathach and Liam in the Autumn world after a few generations.
    They didn't perform the CWR probably because 1) they didn't have the time and 2) it involves -- but here it's only my own pet theory -- the taking of an oath with a willing mortal. And I do think that would answer your other concern about sidhe being body snatchers. Yes, that's true, but the commoners are soul-tricking the mortals they bond with (again, it's my personal take on the matter).

    Originally posted by Eldagusto View Post
    And what about the Arcadian non-Sidhe? We don't have much of anything on them. How many returned with the Sidhe? More or less then the Sidhe Host? It would be appropriate that they were more as they were the retinue of the House, I'd imagine many would be low titled house members. Hell that could explain the odd More Nobles to Commoner ratio in Neustra, the Arcadian nonSidhe could have flooded into France as a second Sidhe stronghold compared to Concordia. But do we assume the Arcadian nonSidhe mostly undergo the Changeling Way? That seems weird since why wouldn't they just do what their leaders are doing and become say an Autumn Boggan. After all their loyalties could be wonky after reincarnation and it would be probably advantageous to have your retinue steal adult bodies with you.
    There is one example of an Arcadian commoner in KB: Nockers. He's an Unseelie nocker and a member of the Shadow Court, an assassin of sidhe.

    In my game, an Arcadian commoner suffers from the same Frailty to Banality as the sidhe (so it's a Flaw).


    Last edited by mattboggan; 07-11-2018, 06:11 AM.

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  • mattboggan
    replied
    Originally posted by Slanzer View Post
    C20 changed several things in regard to the Changeling Way and deaths. Reincarnation no longer means being reborn as changeling infants, but rather a faerie soul bonding to an imaginative child's, the bonding of the mortal body to the faerie soul being what makes a changeling. In other words, there are no longer any changelings whose mortal bodies are younger than 2-3 years old, even if they haven't undergone the Chrysalis yet. In the case of Arcadian Sidhe, the mortal soul is kicked out of the way instead of bonded with.
    I have to contradict you here.

    An Autumn changeling is born, has her Chrysalis, grows old, changes seemings, and ultimately dies, probably having been Undone before. Once dead, she reincarnates in a new body, and the cycle begins anew. See C20 p. 46.

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  • FallenEco
    replied
    Originally posted by Eldagusto View Post
    --snip--
    And what the hell is the idea behind King David and his Wife expecting a Sidhe Childe to inherit things? Are they expecting to have an Autumn Sidhe and it would thus harken the first Autumn Sidhe High King and probably a lot of tumult, or are they just fine with having a kinain baby and hoping a new Sidhe will arrive in a Glimmer and steal their babies soul and wear its body? The idea being Children of Sidhe are more likely to be hosts to returning Arcadians? Or Maybe he has some secret method he discovered to force a designation as a Sidhe host?

    Do we have any mention of a character that was an Arcadian Commoner?
    It might be possible that King David was hoping to create a new far soul within his child. Still raises so many plot generating questions though. Or it would be anotheradoption thing.

    As for the later question, I don't remember a write up for an Arcadian commoner, or even a specific mention.

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  • zenten
    replied
    Maybe they were hoping or planning somehow for a new sidhe baby?

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  • Prince of the Night
    replied
    what happens when a sidhe's undone then?

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  • Eldagusto
    replied
    And the Sidhe returned with a lot of royal Treasures, often that tie into Freeholds like, Scepters, Crowns and Seals, but what do they do? I seem to recall the older books detailing them more, but what were their powers, weren't they along the lines of allowing the divvying up of Glamour?


    And what the hell is the idea behind King David and his Wife expecting a Sidhe Childe to inherit things? Are they expecting to have an Autumn Sidhe and it would thus harken the first Autumn Sidhe High King and probably a lot of tumult, or are they just fine with having a kinain baby and hoping a new Sidhe will arrive in a Glimmer and steal their babies soul and wear its body? The idea being Children of Sidhe are more likely to be hosts to returning Arcadians? Or Maybe he has some secret method he discovered to force a designation as a Sidhe host?

    Do we have any mention of a character that was an Arcadian Commoner?

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  • Lachdanan
    replied
    A Changeling can have a mortal name, a Changeling name, a nickname (good for Sidhes who have looong and boring names), a True Name determined during the Saining, and maybe a deed name, if you are Wolf-Blooded.
    Because your lord's pet sorcerer found out your True Name during the Saining, you are in a mess, just because your backstory.
    'Cause who knows your True Name have -4 diff. from every mystical acts on you, including blessings and curses.

    I've got an impression that sharing your True Name with somebody is one of the greatest act of trust.

    Just to mention: Now I'm playing a Namer, who periodically Reweave his own True Name to be sure.

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  • zenten
    replied
    I was under the impression that no Changeling would risk going about making their true name public.

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  • Eldagusto
    replied
    Also the saning has a new changeling recall their name, but for some it seems they choose a new name. Like David Ardy probably wasn’t the Faes name, unless what the Sidhr was Originally Ard Ri David? Same with Mumbai Shadow Court Sidhe Twins Siva and Kali, that seems more like they were choosing names from their hosts memories, either that or they were what fae aspects of Gods?

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  • Eldagusto
    replied
    Well they still don't know that they aren't their kin though, they could think that they work like other changelings, since Sidhe are new, and just think huh I guess my wife was a Faery. But I would like it addressed rather then Ignored, because it really gives off the impression the Sidhe may have been designed as NPCs early on and they half changed their mind.


    But if you had to make up your mind for a Changeling Game, like the story involved finding out what happens to Sidhe after they die, what way would you go?

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  • Lachdanan
    replied
    Originally posted by Eldagusto View Post
    Ahh so you can join a house without a Title? So you gain the Boon and Flaw?
    You could. There is a template (Street Knight) in the Nobles - The Shining Host, pg. 110, who is a member of House, but doesn't have a title. My current character is also an associate with House Liam, but refuses to take a rank in the Kithain Society, but have sworn the House's Oath and follows it's tenets.

    Originally posted by Eldagusto View Post
    I'd imagine the saving grace being Prodigals at least won't be able to tell by default if you are a Sidhe, though some would especially if you replace a spouse, meanwhile it effects all Kithain since they know what you did to get your body.
    Scent of the True Form a Level 1 Gift, what tons of Changers have. Yes, some times they won't be able to pick your scent, and even if you could, it's highly probable that you wouldn't know into WHAT their Kin turned into.
    But it changed, and a Rage filled furball has it in agression what lacks in patience.
    Last edited by Lachdanan; 05-03-2018, 05:32 AM.

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  • Eldagusto
    replied
    Ahh so you can join a house without a Title? So you gain the Boon and Flaw? That feels like it should have been emphasized more, they go out of their way to say virtually all Entitled are in a house, I imagine a handful of exceptions.

    Interesting info thanks guys. Keep it coming!


    I'd imagine the saving grace being Prodigals at least won't be able to tell by default if you are a Sidhe, though some would especially if you replace a spouse, meanwhile it effects all Kithain since they know what you did to get your body.

    Still no estimates on the amount of Nonsidhe that returned with them?

    And we know some Sidhe do choose the Arcadian Way post Resurgence so its not a lost secret. I wonder if the Exiled Sidhe fresh from the Trods should be something that you can interact with before they get a host, like treat them as Lost Ones quickly dwindling from Banality, or if they would be like almost mindless phantoms driven like purty homing missiles towards a host.

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  • Lachdanan
    replied
    Originally posted by Eldagusto View Post
    So we need more info on Sidhe Possession. Wouldn't most Changelings be aligned against Sidhe because they are Bodysnatchers who steal a body and do Tuatha knows what with the soul?
    I mean if they steal the soul and body of a family or friend of yours wouldn't you hate them?
    I would worry more about the the Prodigals. Some are veeery protective about their Kin. Angering a Garou is a sure way to test if you would reincarnate.

    Originally posted by Eldagusto View Post
    And what happens when they possess a body, do they immediately chrysalis?
    Yes, based on the Toybox novel. When Yirtalien was freed from his interdimensional prison and took a model's body he immediately become a Changeling, as if he even bypassed the Crysalis' confused aspects.

    I *thing* the newly attached AWARE faery soul and the impour of Glamour would be enough to trigger it.

    Originally posted by Eldagusto View Post
    Do they fall into the mists and memories of the body, and to everyone else they seem like the host just had a change of personality, once again like the traditional changeling concept of someones child looking the same but being different.
    My theory: they would inherit the memories of the human and would be able to mimic her personality if they would like.

    Originally posted by Eldagusto View Post
    We need a solid discussion of what actually happens during the changeling way ritual. Is it a simple magic any fae can do? Can Adhene do it? Or is it tied to Arts? Maybe Unleashings? I would say Naming would be the one I would use to represent it. So did the adoption of the Changeling Way mean certain Masters of say Naming performed the Ritual for everyone else?
    The greatest aspect of games are uncertainity. We don't know and we should not know what was the Changeling Ritual. It was done in bygone times and the power by it was made is long dust. It's creators may live / reincarnate, but the environment is changed (Banality, Banality and More Banality) that much it couldn't be easily repeated. But yeh, it was hinted that it was a Naming mass-unleashing.

    Originally posted by Eldagusto View Post
    As it stands we don't really have much of a good reason why the Sidhe didn't perform the Ritual en masse upon returning.
    Because: 1) They are fools. 2) They don't want to sullie they noble blood (see 1). 3) They didn't have any information about the environment, the Banality stormed them & had no knowledge about the Ritual (see 1. - Always make reconnaissance). 4) And they may be not able to do the deed. (See above.)

    Originally posted by Eldagusto View Post
    But what do you think happens to the Sidhe soul after Death?

    And what about the Arcadian non-Sidhe? We don't have much of anything on them. How many returned with the Sidhe? More or less then the Sidhe Host? It would be appropriate that they were more as they were the retinue of the House, I'd imagine many would be low titled house members. Hell that could explain the odd More Nobles to Commoner ratio in Neustra, the Arcadian nonSidhe could have flooded into France as a second Sidhe stronghold compared to Concordia. But do we assume the Arcadian nonSidhe mostly undergo the Changeling Way? That seems weird since why wouldn't they just do what their leaders are doing and become say an Autumn Boggan. After all their loyalties could be wonky after reincarnation and it would be probably advantageous to have your retinue steal adult bodies with you.

    I hope the Player's Guide touches on this. I mean reading C20 right now it seems they gloss over it. The way its emphasized, it seems their is no real good reason why the Sidhe wouldn't undergo the Changeling Way unlease they have a concrete reason to believe it would screw them over.
    Yes, the writers should touch these topics. I hope the answers will be as much depressing that we'd be happier without them. If I'd receive a pen & papers they were.

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