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Sidhe Possession, Changeling Way Ritual, the Non-sidhe Arcadians, and Reincarnation

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  • Sidhe Possession, Changeling Way Ritual, the Non-sidhe Arcadians, and Reincarnation

    Uhhh kept erasing this as I wrote it because the tab kept getting misclicked...

    So we need more info on Sidhe Possession. Wouldn't most Changelings be aligned against Sidhe because they are Bodysnatchers who steal a body and do Tuatha knows what with the soul?
    I mean if they steal the soul and body of a family or friend of yours wouldn't you hate them? Does anyone know what happens with the soul? I seem to recall something about them being tithed to Arcadia. In my headcanon they are sent to Arcadia, a tithe, and turned into a form of Changelings. This may make Sidhe more like traditional changelings switching with a mortal.

    And what happens when they possess a body, do they immediately chrysalis? Do they fall into the mists and memories of the body, and to everyone else they seem like the host just had a change of personality, once again like the traditional changeling concept of someones child looking the same but being different.

    We need a solid discussion of what actually happens during the changeling way ritual. Is it a simple magic any fae can do? Can Adhene do it? Or is it tied to Arts? Maybe Unleashings? I would say Naming would be the one I would use to represent it. So did the adoption of the Changeling Way mean certain Masters of say Naming performed the Ritual for everyone else?

    As it stands we don't really have much of a good reason why the Sidhe didn't perform the Ritual en masse upon returning. I guess doing it properly means you are reborn into a baby, so I can see fear of kinda death happening, but the fact they can die for real is terrifying. Do we have more discussion? What do mosst Sidhe Believe? I think some think they return to Arcadia but that just seems a leap of faith. Since its been decades since the Resurgence if we weren't getting Sidhe returning every now and then it would be very noticeable as they die out. Before we had Autumn Sidhe in C20 they seemed to disappear except Scathach and Liam in the Autumn world after a few generations.

    But what do you think happens to the Sidhe soul after Death? Are they Destroyed? Do they go back to Arcadia? Or it also seems fitting for Nonchangeling way Fae to go to the Underworld after dying. Seems kind of cool, and could explain things like a Bean Sidhe Thallain. It seems also fitting if they do become a commoner, Claurichan do seem to be somewhat like Sidhe without the epic beauty, maybe their hording and drinking and fighting is to fill the void of loss of status. The Leprachauns after all are just a degenerate myth of the Sidhe gods of the Tuatha.

    And what about the Arcadian non-Sidhe? We don't have much of anything on them. How many returned with the Sidhe? More or less then the Sidhe Host? It would be appropriate that they were more as they were the retinue of the House, I'd imagine many would be low titled house members. Hell that could explain the odd More Nobles to Commoner ratio in Neustra, the Arcadian nonSidhe could have flooded into France as a second Sidhe stronghold compared to Concordia. But do we assume the Arcadian nonSidhe mostly undergo the Changeling Way? That seems weird since why wouldn't they just do what their leaders are doing and become say an Autumn Boggan. After all their loyalties could be wonky after reincarnation and it would be probably advantageous to have your retinue steal adult bodies with you.

    I hope the Player's Guide touches on this. I mean reading C20 right now it seems they gloss over it. The way its emphasized, it seems their is no real good reason why the Sidhe wouldn't undergo the Changeling Way unlease they have a concrete reason to believe it would screw them over.

  • adambeyoncelowe
    replied
    Originally posted by Nyrufa View Post



    I don't have the WoD books for Mage or Werewolf, but I'm going to assume the answer is "no" because the host retains their sense of individuality?

    They might guide or encourage their host, but they don't assume direct control over them. At least not that I'm aware of.
    There is no 'host'. Avatars and Shadows are an intrinsic part of the human soul, rather than parasites. Sure, the Avatar may reincarnate, moving from lifetime to lifetime, but it's still a part of your soul.

    Likewise, so is the fae part of your soul. The two parts come together like the gametes from your mother and father to make one being: a changeling.

    Leave a comment:


  • mattboggan
    replied
    Originally posted by Eldagusto View Post
    So you think it’s sidhe that don’t recede into mists when they take a mortal that are so powerful? And it’s kind of a coin toss if it happens except sometimes those in freeholds and such are more inclined to keep their minds? Do you think Sidhe are driven by instinct to find suitable hosts when returning? Or are they able to be more free in where and whom they choose?
    It was implied in several books that the sidhe who freshly came out of Arcadia in 1969 or after (like Yrtalien) retained most of their powers, even though the Mists took away their memories. Which causes a whole new set of questions and problems, most notably when you handle newly created PCs fresh out of Arcadia (those from the Lost Houses who came back in 1999). See the thread I have started here: http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/m...arcadian-sidhe

    It was also implied that the sidhe managed somehow to incarnate in hosts who were quite perfect (wealthy families or positions of power, beautiftull, etc.) or to the contrary homeless people(I can imagine an Arcadian Liam sidhe reasoning that by possessing the body of this homeless guy, he will offer him a better life in Arcadia). So, yes, I took this as a proof that sidhe choose their hosts.

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  • FallenEco
    replied
    I think the Shadow is a wraith reference.

    Leave a comment:


  • Nyrufa
    replied
    Originally posted by Eldagusto View Post
    So does that mean the shadow is a parasite to the psyche or the avatar is some sort of body snatcher too?


    I don't have the WoD books for Mage or Werewolf, but I'm going to assume the answer is "no" because the host retains their sense of individuality?

    They might guide or encourage their host, but they don't assume direct control over them. At least not that I'm aware of.
    Last edited by Nyrufa; 07-12-2018, 11:07 PM.

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  • Eldagusto
    replied
    So does that mean the shadow is a parasite to the psyche or the avatar is some sort of body snatcher too?

    Leave a comment:


  • Nyrufa
    replied
    Originally posted by FallenEco View Post

    Pure propaganda. The Changeling Way creates a fusion, not a replacement; a unity that goes on, lifetime after lifetime, carry the heart and soul into a another kindred spirit in each age.

    And sure, they say those cast out so the Sidhe may walk this mortal world go to Arcadia in their place, but we have no proof and not all the Houses support such claims. To say nothing of the Keremet's take which claims those mortal souls as their charges.

    The truth is, we don't know for sure.

    But standing against the Sidhe who won that dreadful war helps no one.


    Once again, the Changeling Way assimilates the mortal soul with the Fey spirit. The host body loses its ability to fully function in the Autumn World, because it fears the destruction of its soul for doing so. And when it's not paying bills or studying for final exams, they're bargaining with witches and battling fire breathing dragons with a 4 foot piece of sharpened metal!

    So again, which do you think sounds more evil? Being safely tucked away in Arcadia, which all of these fey seem desperately trying to get back to, or losing your mind and body to a creature that you barely understand as your forced to lead a double life as a mortal fairy?
    Last edited by Nyrufa; 07-12-2018, 10:02 AM.

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  • mattboggan
    replied
    Another take on the question of the difference between the Autumn Changeling Way and the Arcadian Changeling Way is the matter of the Thallain.

    In N:tSH and TSC, it has been revealed that the Thallain returned to the Waking Lands in 1969, riding alongside the sidhe the wave of Glamour back to Earth, coming directly from the Nightmare Realms.

    In fact, prior to the Resurgence, Thallain had been drawn to Earth during the Interregnum by the new bleakness of the period. They worked to bring Winter (TSC p. 19-20). So, I'm guessing that explains why it is written in C20 (p. 370) that Thallain benefited from the Changeling Way. And from their description, it is the Autumn version, as they don't seem to suffer from Banality's Curse, which is, I surmise, the fate of all Arcadian changelings.
    Last edited by mattboggan; 07-12-2018, 03:43 AM.

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  • Eldagusto
    replied
    Originally posted by mattboggan View Post

    May I ask where you have read that?
    In the C20 Core, the Concordia king David section mentions this.



    So you think it’s sidhe that don’t recede into mists when they take a mortal that are so powerful? And it’s kind of a coin toss if it happens except sometimes those in freeholds and such are more inclined to keep their minds? Do you think Sidhe are driven by instinct to find suitable hosts when returning? Or are they able to be more free in where and whom they choose?

    Leave a comment:


  • mattboggan
    replied
    Originally posted by Eldagusto View Post
    And what the hell is the idea behind King David and his Wife expecting a Sidhe Childe to inherit things?
    May I ask where you have read that?

    Leave a comment:


  • mattboggan
    replied
    Originally posted by Eldagusto View Post
    So in C20 king David wasn’t an Autumn Sidhe yet he was born in a mortal babys body as a one shot Arcadian Sidhe?
    Never it is implied in any book that David was born into a mortal baby, and trust, having run a chronicle set in 1969 (The Winter Chronicles: Riders on the Storm, a tribute to the Doors' song), I have read them very closely. He took the body of a young child, as Morwen did, and they became mortal brother and sister.

    Leave a comment:


  • mattboggan
    replied
    Originally posted by Eldagusto View Post
    Also why are some Sidhe so mighty when they return but others aren’t. Maybe we should have gotten rules for sidhe they are returning lords and those that are normal changelings.
    This is a question I raised here:

    http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/m...arcadian-sidhe

    Leave a comment:


  • FallenEco
    replied
    Originally posted by Nyrufa View Post

    To what end would opposing them serve? The other kiths already tried to stand against the Sidhe, and they lost because the Dreaming gave the nobles its full support.

    Besides, if the Sidhe are body snatchers, then the commoners are soul eaters. The Changeling Way causes them to merge with their host's spirit, becoming a single being.

    Which scenario do you find more terrifying? Having your spirit deposited into a dream world paradise, or having your very identity assimilated by another being?

    And on top of that, Arcadian Sidhe only take ONE host during their time on earth. Autumn Sidhe and Commoners take dozens, hundreds, maybe even thousands of hosts throughout their numerous reincarnations.

    If anything, the Sidhe are the lesser of two evils!
    Pure propaganda. The Changeling Way creates a fusion, not a replacement; a unity that goes on, lifetime after lifetime, carry the heart and soul into a another kindred spirit in each age.

    And sure, they say those cast out so the Sidhe may walk this mortal world go to Arcadia in their place, but we have no proof and not all the Houses support such claims. To say nothing of the Keremet's take which claims those mortal souls as their charges.

    The truth is, we don't know for sure.

    But standing against the Sidhe who won that dreadful war helps no one.

    Leave a comment:


  • Eldagusto
    replied
    Also why are some Sidhe so mighty when they return but others aren’t. Maybe we should have gotten rules for sidhe they are returning lords and those that are normal changelings.

    So in C20 king David wasn’t an Autumn Sidhe yet he was born in a mortal babys body as a one shot Arcadian Sidhe?

    Leave a comment:


  • Eldagusto
    replied
    The idea is they stole peoples bodies and literally took over the Fae half of the World. And they won for a number of reasons, not the least of which was because a lot of commoners and nunnehi joined them. But Autumn Fae are born into bodies tied to mortal souls they don’t replace them, they grow as the same being. I mean it’s possible they might have in the first generation but it’s not a given. Did he literally aren’t your daughter or wife or neighbor but pretend to be, much more insidious the. The Fetch in Lost. And Arcadia isn’t necessarily a Paradise, it’s full of miracles but it isn’t heaven, and now some stranger lives in your body and bangs your wife.

    Leave a comment:

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