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  • #31
    Originally posted by Eldagusto View Post
    But I thought you needed Wayfare to open Freehold Gateways and Trods from the Mortal side? Or was it they just each had a special key/secret that could open them and were just established with Wayfare?
    No you don't.

    Wayfare is only for opening temporary portals into the Dreaming, not established trods. The conditions for opening established gateways varies. For trods into Near Dreaming, it can be as simple as tapping on the doorway a certain number of times, playing a certain song, or answering riddles. For something harder like a trod into the Deep Dreaming, it can be as specific as it only opening during a certain time of the day, answer complex philosophical problems, or even sacrifice Treasures. You could Unleash Wayfare if you wanted to bypass the "password" to a trod completely, but it's obviously not required for you to do so.

    Otherwise that would have been...terrible design to make it required to use one Art just to enter the Dreaming period.

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    • #32
      In the Interregnum glamour was very scarce, and banality a constant threat. For the most part the location of trods were unknown. So a knowledgable fae could spend scarce resources to open a temporary portal to the Dreaming, and probably get themselves killed.

      That said, it's not that no one *ever* went to the Dreaming, just that it was very uncommon.

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      • #33
        So just read the Freehold section still a bit confused. Are Balefires usually on the Mortal or Dreaming side of a Freehold? Several are described as having say a human side face, with a bigger dreaming side one. So do people usually have to go into the dreaming to sleep by a Balefire?

        How do you steal a Freehold, as it says you can but the ownership is mystically enforced.

        We could have used a bit more talk on Freeholds that only exist in the Dreaming, like a specific name for those types, I guess they are usually Homesteads?

        And when in the Near Dreaming you are usually on a Trod right? I mean it sounds like all the Near Dreaming is is just a collection of Trods, and if you walk off the path you won't be able to reach other Trods. While the Penumbra is a reflection of the world, the Near Dreamings seems to be a patchwork imitation of the world composed of only trods.


        It is a time for great deeds!

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        • #34
          Still trying to grokk the rules. In older editions I remember a sidebar talking about if you were say on a flying Carpet and you were seen by unenchanted disbelief would shunt you to the dreaming. So now if you call upon the Wyrd, people seeing it won't shut the power off right? They just go a bit bugger and then mistamnesia over later? Or is it Treasures are particularly impervious to human sight but Arts and Chimera are disbelieved? Do all these things Trigger Banality? Read a lot at once and trying to figure all this out.


          It is a time for great deeds!

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Eldagusto View Post
            So just read the Freehold section still a bit confused. Are Balefires usually on the Mortal or Dreaming side of a Freehold?
            So do people usually have to go into the dreaming to sleep by a Balefire?
            I'm also a little bit confused about the Freeholds. I view the FHs as pocket realms potruding from the mundane world into the Dreaming but not situated wholy in it. The freeholds have a direct physical border, but from that everything is an open game.

            But, based on the rules of Balefire production, it needs a Wellspring, what always have roots in the Autumn world.

            Originally posted by Eldagusto View Post
            How do you steal a Freehold, as it says you can but the ownership is mystically enforced.
            The FH gives you certain protection, but doesn't make you bulletproof. You could be forced / coerced to give up your Holding, or simply killed, or made Undone.

            Originally posted by Eldagusto View Post
            And when in the Near Dreaming you are usually on a Trod right? I mean it sounds like all the Near Dreaming is is just a collection of Trods, and if you walk off the path you won't be able to reach other Trods. While the Penumbra is a reflection of the world, the Near Dreamings seems to be a patchwork imitation of the world composed of only trods.
            Nay, trods goes into the Near Dreaming, and from it, but the Near Dreaming is like the Umbra in M/W, a whole, encompassing world of spiritual ecosystem. Check the M20 for information. Suprisingly it has some.

            Originally posted by Eldagusto View Post
            Still trying to grokk the rules. In older editions I remember a sidebar talking about if you were say on a flying Carpet and you were seen by unenchanted disbelief would shunt you to the dreaming. So now if you call upon the Wyrd, people seeing it won't shut the power off right? They just go a bit bugger and then mistamnesia over later? Or is it Treasures are particularly impervious to human sight but Arts and Chimera are disbelieved? Do all these things Trigger Banality? Read a lot at once and trying to figure all this out.
            You won't forced into the Dreaming, but fly that carpet. The onlookers' memories will be clouded by the Mists. But high number of Banal people may rise the ambient Banality, and adds +1 to the difficulty.


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            • #36
              So finished the C20 core and onto the Freeholds book. So Lodges used to be what Trolls called their Freeholds, but the core calls Lodges Nunnehi Freeholds, but I think the Freeholds book says Nunnehi only have Glades, but they go out of their way to mention a Nunnehi freehold in Chicago.

              Trods do seem much different from the Penumbra. More like the Hedge in Changeling the lost in how their spacial relations work. So the Near Dreaming on the other side of a Rath/Trod/Freehold reflects the spirit/Dream of the local area and the entrance, but the area around seems more and more reflects the theme of the entrance and less the greater geography of say the Freehold. They mention like how a Park Freehold in South Dakota could be closer in the Dreaming to a New Zealand wilderness freehold then a Dakota city freehold. It seems where there is no entrance point connecting the Near Dreaming and the Autumn World there is no reflected near dreaming there, were as the Penumbra always reflects geographically speaking the material world. So the farther you go from the entrance the less your surrounding is an actual reflection of the material world. This throws a lot of questions on how Inanimae anchors work, because that section was written like the author assumed the Near dreaming was like the Penumbra and the Anchor is always reflect there, but if you have a mobile anchor, like the example Krofted Walking stick anchor then how does that work, does it essentially map out a temporary "draw distance" around the stick in the near dreaming that fades after you walk away, like a temporary trod?


              Still hoping they clarify the dimensions of a Freehold as I read. The C20 core wasn't too specific with it, saying sometimes its bigger on the inside and I wasn't sure if that bigness was a chimerical effect, or just because when you enter a Rath you are now in the Dreaming. Wasn't sure if say you just have extra rooms in the dreaming side or if you say have a dinning room in the real world and one reflected in the dreaming as well.


              Also it seems odd the fae were so unfamiliar with foreign fae like Nunnehi when they say before the shattering the Dreaming worked to allow freeholds to connect to shared Dreaming spaces like the Underbridge that connects all bridges in a regional dream realm. It seems to me before the Changeling way and Fae became Changelings you probably had Fae all around the world a bit more connected, but they lost a lot of memories and recorded history to the mists after the Shattering and changeling way ritual so they forgot memories when say river freeholds connected in the near dreaming allowing say someone like a River Hag on a Thames Freehold to ourney to a Mississippi freehold populated by Water Babies.


              It is a time for great deeds!

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              • #37
                And its very uncertain on Tribal Fae and the Dreaming. People have given me contradictory opinions on if the Tribal Fae have access to the Dreaming with Wayfare as well as the Umbras or if they no longer have access to the Dreaming and only the Umbras. The books are vague, they don't seem to outright say the Tribals can only go into the Umbras, but they say in the C20 and the Freehold books they are closed off from the Higherhunting Grounds/Whatever Menehune have and seem to imply the dreaming as a whole. Giving that as a reason why they can't use Kithain Freeholds because of their Dreaming Disconnect, while Glades are more natural and connected to both the Umbra and the Dreaming.


                It is a time for great deeds!

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                • #38
                  And Dross? They seem to have glossed over explaining Dross besides the fact that it exists. We don't have explanations for growing/harvesting Dross and how the Tithe of Glamour works for the Fuedal Hierarchy? How does a Baron tithe glamour to his Count or Duke Liege? This used to be a thing in 2nd ed. Is it dross that he can create, or can he just somehow transfer glamour? So far all I remember of it in C20 is that if you kill Chimera you can harvest dross, but you used to be able to harvest Dross like Mages harvested Tass.


                  It is a time for great deeds!

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                  • #39
                    We are also missing rules on how to do things like synchronize chimerical things with mundane things, like they say crafters do to attache Voile to normal clothes. I guess you could use a variant of the basic crafting Treasures rules combined with basic crafting?

                    Also it was said you need to sleep in the same room as the balefire to get glamour, but in the Freehold books it talks about things like Manors where everyone harvests glamour even though they sleep in adjacent buildings while the Fire is outside.


                    It is a time for great deeds!

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                    • #40
                      Wait so it costs you just as much to create a brand new freehold (the permanent Glamour anyways) as it does to inherit one?! I feel like you should only need to imbue 1 glamour for just claiming one...


                      It is a time for great deeds!

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Eldagusto View Post
                        Wait so it costs you just as much to create a brand new freehold (the permanent Glamour anyways) as it does to inherit one?! I feel like you should only need to imbue 1 glamour for just claiming one...

                        Yeah I'm not sure how anyone has more than one holding with that sort of setup.

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                        • #42
                          Hello everyone. New here.

                          How do you handle Unleashing Arts? Specially possibly offensive arts like Primal and Autumn. Its the one thing about C20 that's giving me a headache.

                          Example: A frightened fae unleashes Primal when surrounded by hunters. The magic overwhelms the fae and he looses control. The Primal art creates a spout of volcanic lava to slosh all over the area. How much damage would you say this causes? This is the part that gives me the headache. How to assign a numeric value to an action that doesn't have any system metric other than Fail, Control unleashing, and Out of control unleashing. I appreciate any input on this and thanks in advance. =)

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