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  • Freederp92
    started a topic Tribal Fae and Fetishes

    Tribal Fae and Fetishes

    This is something that came up recently in one of my groups, no one is playing Nunnehi but they have met one or two local to the area as well as one garou. With Nunnehi and their totem bonds and dependency on the Umbra can they use fetishes? I always found it a bit weird that Tribal Fae have access to stuff tied to the Dreaming, nothing prevents them from taking Chimera, Arts, and Treasures but in my game some places do let Nunnehi enter the Near Umbra if they have a strong resonance with the folklore in which they hail from.

    So question at hand is if a Tribal Fae is gifted a Fetish could they use it? Using Medicine/Mana in place of Gnosis? Could Tribal Fae theoretical create talens and fetishes?

  • Lachdanan
    replied
    Originally posted by Eldagusto View Post

    Well its more likely then that the Commoners are the ones who took the Treasures as spoils of War. In that Case the Sidhe could consider giving at least some of them back as an ambassadorial token, like going see we are more honorable than those petty commoners who you warred with.
    Not the Treasuers matter, but the Lodges. They stole them, destroyed homes, tribal knowledge, than made Freeholds from the carcasses.
    It's not a question why so many of the Nunnehi are in the Winter Camp.

    About the Book of Freeholds: It makes a complete mess with the Lodges/Glades/Freeholds.

    An other thing:
    I've just checked the oldschool Player's Guide. Back then the Nunnehi could gather Medicine from the Dreams, but with +2 difficulty. (And from tribal one's easily.)

    Why did the OPP took that away? Gathering the juice is a great RP opportunity, what now is closed.

    Also I *think* a different Banality-cleansing method should be inplemented for them.
    For example: Cleansing a tainted place& helping the nature reclaime it.

    Leave a comment:


  • Eldagusto
    replied
    Originally posted by Freederp92 View Post


    I honestly treat Nunnehi as able to access Near Dreaming and the equivalent of the Umbra, I didn't mean 'oh they cant come here anymore, no tribal scums.' I've been treating it more on the level of they cannot access Kithain Freeholds to hop through, though through Glades and such they can use Wayfare or natural raths to crossover. Also Nunnehi get a form of Freehold according to the core book called Lodges(?) but they don't function or resemble Kithain Freeholds? I was hoping Freeholds would talk about Lodges but nope.

    I've been trying to balance both those ends as my current story revolves around how Nunnehi are trying to reclaim Treasures and what were once their Lodges from Kithains and the struggles of to do what is right and what is expected of you as one of the Players is a Sidhe of noble lineage and her family would look down on handing over something their ancestor took in conquest of the New World.
    Well its more likely then that the Commoners are the ones who took the Treasures as spoils of War. In that Case the Sidhe could consider giving at least some of them back as an ambassadorial token, like going see we are more honorable than those petty commoners who you warred with.

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  • Freederp92
    replied
    Originally posted by Lachdanan View Post

    If somebody can, please inform me:
    Why do we think, that the Tribals don't have connection to the Dreaming. Yeh, they are forbidden to set foot into the (now destroyed - Thank you Freeholds!) Higher Hunting Grounds, what is their semi-Arcadia.
    But nothing states that they can't access the other parts of the Dreaming. Their spiritual properities - so far - are addition to the normal faerie abilities and not a replacement.

    They have alternative methods to gather juice, they can't GATHER them from Dreamers, but, I *think* we shouldn't widen this as a NODREAMINGYOUTRIBALSCUM rule.

    I honestly treat Nunnehi as able to access Near Dreaming and the equivalent of the Umbra, I didn't mean 'oh they cant come here anymore, no tribal scums.' I've been treating it more on the level of they cannot access Kithain Freeholds to hop through, though through Glades and such they can use Wayfare or natural raths to crossover. Also Nunnehi get a form of Freehold according to the core book called Lodges(?) but they don't function or resemble Kithain Freeholds? I was hoping Freeholds would talk about Lodges but nope.

    I've been trying to balance both those ends as my current story revolves around how Nunnehi are trying to reclaim Treasures and what were once their Lodges from Kithains and the struggles of to do what is right and what is expected of you as one of the Players is a Sidhe of noble lineage and her family would look down on handing over something their ancestor took in conquest of the New World.

    Leave a comment:


  • Lachdanan
    replied
    Originally posted by Freederp92 View Post
    ...connection shifting from Dreaming to Umbra.
    If somebody can, please inform me:
    Why do we think, that the Tribals don't have connection to the Dreaming. Yeh, they are forbidden to set foot into the (now destroyed - Thank you Freeholds!) Higher Hunting Grounds, what is their semi-Arcadia.
    But nothing states that they can't access the other parts of the Dreaming. Their spiritual properities - so far - are addition to the normal faerie abilities and not a replacement.

    They have alternative methods to gather juice, they can't GATHER them from Dreamers, but, I *think* we shouldn't widen this as a NODREAMINGYOUTRIBALSCUM rule.

    Leave a comment:


  • Freederp92
    replied
    Originally posted by Magpie and Sunshine View Post
    On a site I play, the ST have allowed Nunnehi to make something that is a cross between a treasure and a fetish. Rather than binding a spirit to an object like a shifter, you negotiate with a spirit to imbue certain abilities in a object (basically the charms spirits have). So you can have ceremonial rattle that can Cleanse Blight, for example. The site in question does not give Nunnehi access to Kithain Treasure easily.
    Okay thats cool, I was experimenting with this kind of idea because Tribal Fae getting Treasures as their go to magic items was always weird to me because of their connection shifting from Dreaming to Umbra. While Nunnehi do have Arts and Realms I've been treating Treasures of theirs as religious or mythological potent items, lost to the Ages and possibly in the hands of Sidhe who lord them over Nunnehi to keep them in their service if they want them back. Nunnehi can still craft Treasures but doing so needs special elements that they've begun to have issues gathering, they would parallel mythical items so these fetish like items are easier to craft especially when they can enter the Umbra and petition the aid of their Totem spirits or spirits who find them as allies.

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  • Magpie and Sunshine
    replied
    On a site I play, the ST have allowed Nunnehi to make something that is a cross between a treasure and a fetish. Rather than binding a spirit to an object like a shifter, you negotiate with a spirit to imbue certain abilities in a object (basically the charms spirits have). So you can have ceremonial rattle that can Cleanse Blight, for example. The site in question does not give Nunnehi access to Kithain Treasure easily.

    Leave a comment:


  • Lachdanan
    replied
    Originally posted by Eldagusto View Post
    Sovereign you can order them to heed your words.
    Yes / No / Maybe.
    A gun would fire, sure. But would it without a bullet? A Fetish needs an attuned soul to work (usualy). It gives the juice.

    You can order a squire to kill his master, but the knight guts her with a sword. Your order was tried, but never succeded.
    Paralel, you can order the Fetish to attune. The Fetish tries, but fails, because YOU lack the spiritual component to get attached onto.

    Leave a comment:


  • Eldagusto
    replied
    Sovereign can be used to make it so a blade you just crafted is ordered never to bite anyone of your blood, or to command doors to shut, or Waterfalls to halt. Fetishes can do magic, with Sovereign you can order them to heed your words. Doors can't close themselves, shut off phones can't turn themselves off but you can certainly order them too.

    Leave a comment:


  • Lachdanan
    replied
    Originally posted by Lian View Post
    1-see into other worlds. Innate
    Yes, but doesn't cover the Lower World and scanning the spirit world from afar. And the received information is not detailed. The difference between the 5 sucess Art and the Innate ability is paralel between the new electronic eye technology and the perfect sight.

    Originally posted by Lian View Post
    2-talk to spirits, innate. Commune with ghosts, innate. Talk to objects about things Primal,
    False. You can communicate with the spirits who are there, but can't summon your grand-grand-...-grandfather to answer your questions. Yeh, you can speak with a wolf spirit, but contacting with the shamanic-great ancestor to discuss ritual knowledge is a great difference.
    The second level of this Art was (or is) the tool of a clever Nunnehi to ressurect tribal customs, language. To familiarize with long lost taboos and find out her ancestry.

    Originally posted by Lian View Post
    3-Talk to your totem innate. Talk to spirits of wisdom etc innate. See the future Soothsay
    Yes, seeing a future is covered in sootsay, but the effects are different as the worldviews. Also the covered information are on a different level. And yes, you can communicate with your totem if she is there. Usualy she is not.

    Originally posted by Lian View Post
    4-Doable by any fae with any emotion manipulating power.
    Nay. With this power you can placate the ghosts & not manipulate / dominate it. Yes, the effect will be the same: a ghost gone. But with placate you don't abuse your power and you negotiate. You are on the same level and you don't place yourselv above the ghosts.

    Originally posted by Lian View Post
    5-Sovereign.
    Yes, but again with different effects & don't forget the spirit army!

    In my viewpoint the Spirit Link is still a viable option which broadens the powers of Innate Abilities.

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  • Lian
    replied
    1-see into other worlds. Innate
    2-talk to spirits, innate. Commune with ghosts, innate. Talk to objects about things Primal,
    3-Talk to your totem innate. Talk to spirits of wisdom etc innate. See the future Soothsay
    4-Doable by any fae with any emotion manipulating power.
    5-Sovereign.

    Leave a comment:


  • Lachdanan
    replied
    Originally posted by Lian View Post

    All of Spirit Link's powers are innate to Tribal fae now or dooable with other arts.
    It's not true, or not true complately.

    The first level of power is quarterly covered with the innate ability, but the Art allowed much more versality. The other levels are not covered at all, or partialy (Yes, other Art can be used to divine, but how could you contact your ancestor or summon a spirit army?).

    Leave a comment:


  • Lian
    replied
    Originally posted by Lachdanan View Post

    BUT f I'd were the Onyx Path I would make a Nunnehi specific Art to deal with this topic (and bring back the Spirit Link!).
    All of Spirit Link's powers are innate to Tribal fae now or dooable with other arts thanks to their innate ability to talk and travel to the various spirit worlds.

    Leave a comment:


  • Lachdanan
    replied
    Originally posted by Eldagusto View Post
    For instance Mages and Vampires can use magics to commune with the spirits and attune without gnosis. A Changeling could in all likelyhood do the same, Arts are way stronger then Thaumaturgy...
    Partialy true. Please note that the Spirit Manipulation (W20) is UNABLE to create & attune the Fetishes of Fera. They are able to create something they call fetish, but it's not the same. Also they don't commune with spirits. They mind-rape them. Also it's a specialised power designed to deal with the Umbra and it's denizens.

    I didn't take anything else, but Changeling into account, because of the current topic. I speak about just the CtD, and not generalise & include the other game lines.

    Originally posted by Eldagusto View Post
    , and is closest to Spheres of all the powers.
    Mages can use Magics for anything, that's not a question, but the True Magics are unbounded, except by Paradox. Fae Arts are sometimes much more powerful than TM, but limited in their effect. If the Aart wasn't devised in that way, you wouldn't be able to use it like that.

    Originally posted by Eldagusto View Post
    Sovereign would do the trick as it would be way more potent and flexible.
    You would like to order a spirit to do something what it can't do. It's will does not matter in this case. Your order doesn't matter in this case. It's unable, and not because of his shortcomings, but because of the Gallans.
    And I *find* it very unwise to force a spirit.

    Originally posted by Eldagusto View Post
    Unleashing could definitely do it if you don't allow cantrips.
    Yes, Naming would, with catastrophic consequences. And here I don't speak about the usability of the affected Fetish. With this you'd also rape the natural, spiritual order, something the changers, spirits, Gaia, and evil STs don't neglect.

    (And you also need a Fetish: Hey, wolfie, I'd burrow you Klave in which your ancestor is bounded next to a the Great Fenris' wolf kin to make some shady Unleashings, because I wanna use it, Ok?)

    BUT f I'd were the Onyx Path I would make a Nunnehi specific Art to deal with this topic (and bring back the Spirit Link!).


    Note: You seem to be a liberal playah /ST. It's not a problem, but I'm strict. Not in the story, not with the play(ers), or with creativity but with the rules. I saw multiple worlds breake under the "powers unleashed".
    Last edited by Lachdanan; 05-15-2018, 06:40 AM.

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  • Eldagusto
    replied
    Not exactly true. Gnosis can allow you to attune but isn't 100% necessary. For instance Mages and Vampires can use magics to commune with the spirits and attune without gnosis. A Changeling could in all likelyhood do the same, Arts are way stronger then Thaumaturgy, and is closest to Spheres of all the powers. An Unleashing could definitely do it if you don't allow cantrips. But considering the nature of how Spirit Manipulation allows you to attune, Sovereign would do the trick as it would be way more potent and flexible.

    Leave a comment:

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