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True Fae/Lost Ones vs Denizens?

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  • True Fae/Lost Ones vs Denizens?

    Some would argue that the big difference between the two is more political, as in the Denizens either weren't wholly with the Tuatha or were even backing the Fomorians so they were cursed. But could the Dark Kin be taught the Changeling Way? Seem seem more like Fae then Chimera. They seem most like potential Gallain that got stuck on the wrong side of the Dreaming.

    And why are all True Fae/Lost Ones portrayed as irrevocably insane, yet the Denizens aren't portrayed in the same way? If a Fae isn't even in a human host are they really insane? Or are they more just inhuman? Or could it be specifically Lost Ones trapped in Freeholds are the ones who specifically go insane as the Freehold somehow screws with their sense of reality as it is stuck between the Dreaming and the Autumn World. What about just a True Fae who goes into the Dreaming rather then taking a host? One of the Dauntain are those who were broken from being locked out of Arcadia yet in the dreaming... but it doesn't even go into detail of why that would break them but for some reason didn't break the Chimera, or the population of Fae who live in those Subrealms outside the Deep Dreaming.

    Or could it be Arias which keep Denizens sane? Maybe Fae are driven insane because of their dual natures but Denizens naturally evolved a triumvirate nature which for some metaphysical reason keeps them in balance?

    I wish the books would go into detail about this and explain it. It seems weird and unnatural that all Fae outside of Arcadia who don't go into host bodies always go insane... it seem more likely to me that they just don't share the same human values of Changelings rather then they are specifically bonkers. So shouldn't they be more like the Denizens? And what about the Arcadian Sidhe... are they insane before they snatch bodies? Or do they quickly go insane if they don't snatch bodies? Or why can't they just exist on the Dreaming side of things without getting a host, like just rule in the Near Dreaming and make allies with your housemates who became Changelings. This way you would retain your power and you would be a boon to your Houses Agenda as you would be a major power player, unless you always go insane...

    There are a lot of questions. But I feel it seems we should have options for Fae not in host bodies who aren't insane...

    Shouldn't a host of Arcadian Sidhe about to become changelings be able to say stumble upon a Moraie or Muse and say ow them a favor for something like being saved, so they do a one time blessing of teaching them how to become a changeling?

    And what about Denizens, True Fae and Chimera with Treasures? Are these things invisible, or chimerical when they enter the Autumn World but only gain their Autumn aspect when their Chimerical owner drops them? Or do people just see a lot of floating swords and Armor?


    It is a time for great deeds!

  • #2
    There are canon Kithain who aren’t insane, well not in Bedlam anyway, like Harroth the Mute for example who has warred for centuries in the Dreaming without a host since it has been a recent development where he got a host whose soul Keremet were charged to take into the Dreaming.

    Mostly Changelings go insane, as in Bedlam, due to Imbalance in their dual being. Adhene are also susceptible to Bedlam though, through accuisition of Nightmare from Unleashings or Cantrips, the latter only if in the Deep Dreaming. The True Fae are likely similarly vulnerable to acquiring Nightmare from Unleashings Etc. But since the latter two are bereft of human host bodies, and souls, they are not in danger of succumbing to Bedlam merely from existing in the Dreaming.

    I’d say the Treasures are as invisible as their owners as in case of such pure Dreambeings their Chimerical nature owerpowers the banal side of the Treasure. Or that is my interpretation. Naturally YMMV.

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    • #3
      The Kithain are fine living in the Dreaming if they never underwent the Changeling Way ritual. It's those that have or those that hid in freeholds rather than the Dreaming that suffer Bedlam (which btw is very clearly stated in C20 to not be a mental disorder).

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Eldagusto View Post
        Some would argue that the big difference between the two is more political, as in the Denizens either weren't wholly with the Tuatha or were even backing the Fomorians so they were cursed. But could the Dark Kin be taught the Changeling Way? Seem seem more like Fae then Chimera. They seem most like potential Gallain that got stuck on the wrong side of the Dreaming.
        From my side:

        The WW & now the Onyx Path books are "patches" of the main game. If something is not touched by the newer editions & there are no contradictions, the old editions' rules stand.

        In the Denizens & Dreaming pg. 70 there is a 4 point Merit caled "Human Shell". It's basicaly the same as if the Kin would underwent the Changeling Way. Throw her 2 points of Banality, remove the stats above 5 (Relocate it.) adn done.

        Originally posted by Eldagusto View Post
        And why are all True Fae/Lost Ones portrayed as irrevocably insane, yet the Denizens aren't portrayed in the same way? If a Fae isn't even in a human host are they really insane? Or are they more just inhuman? Or could it be specifically Lost Ones trapped in Freeholds are the ones who specifically go insane as the Freehold somehow screws with their sense of reality as it is stuck between the Dreaming and the Autumn World.
        What I'll write is based on the Immortal Eyes and some added knowledge: The Freehold feeds from your Dreams & synchronises with you. You will be surrounded by your own imagination, fears, love, hate, anger. Your environment will change, and mimic you as if it waqs a living beeing, but ultimately, you are alone with your self projected around you. I don't think many people would stand that without turning mad.


        Originally posted by Eldagusto View Post
        What about just a True Fae who goes into the Dreaming rather then taking a host? One of the Dauntain are those who were broken from being locked out of Arcadia yet in the dreaming... but it doesn't even go into detail of why that would break them but for some reason didn't break the Chimera, or the population of Fae who live in those Subrealms outside the Deep Dreaming.
        The W20 Arcadia Gateway is such a Realm and it's Fea are sane (in the medieval, capricious fae standards).


        Originally posted by Eldagusto View Post
        I wish the books would go into detail about this and explain it. It seems weird and unnatural that all Fae outside of Arcadia who don't go into host bodies always go insane... it seem more likely to me that they just don't share the same human values of Changelings rather then they are specifically bonkers.
        There are mentioned non Changeling Fae who could remain sane. For example the BIIIIIGGGGG High, Lost, Great, MegaKING of Ireland.


        Originally posted by Eldagusto View Post
        And what about the Arcadian Sidhe... are they insane before they snatch bodies? Or do they quickly go insane if they don't snatch bodies? Or why can't they just exist on the Dreaming side of things without getting a host, like just rule in the Near Dreaming and make allies with your housemates who became Changelings. This way you would retain your power and you would be a boon to your Houses Agenda as you would be a major power player, unless you always go insane...
        The arcadians remained as they were untill the Darkening. Now they are stonework. Or not. I don't really know if the Card Game's metaplot is relevant. (Hoever the Darkening was hinted in books as well.)

        The Problem with Arcadians & not-grabbing bodies is the Banality. It will tear them in pieces in a short run. And not even the Near Dreaming is free from it.


        Originally posted by Eldagusto View Post
        And what about Denizens, True Fae and Chimera with Treasures? Are these things invisible, or chimerical when they enter the Autumn World but only gain their Autumn aspect when their Chimerical owner drops them? Or do people just see a lot of floating swords and Armor?
        Donno, but would be intrested in a relevant answer.
        Last edited by Lachdanan; 06-14-2018, 01:31 AM.


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