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  • #16
    There's a lot I love about this book. The fleshing out of the Shadow Court into more than just villains, the deep dive into politics, the upgrade to the Parliament of Dreams, the new Kiths.. and for AUSTRALIA! I had some of my own for Africa, South America, and the Middle East (and some overlap the ones in the books, I have to mull that over), but I never got into Australia, and I am loving that. The Lycians are incredible, a whole new TYPE to play with is glorious to my mind. New Treasures and Wonders (they're talens for fae!) and an updated Talecraft and new looks at methods of gathering Glamour that blur the lines between Seelie and Unseelie more! Nice. Can you tell I am a little giddy? It might also be the fever I am running.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Windthin View Post

      I am concerned with Infusion myself; I'd updated it for my game, and seeing the new version I am blending the two, but I don't think I like that level 4 just has one blanket level of points and level 5 seems to indicate you can spend extra chimera points later to raise social skills and other things, but I don't see how you get these extra points.

      Level 1 I am not sure what it does that you can't do with just being a crafter especially since it has time limits.
      Level 2 is broadly useful
      Level 3 exists purely so you can do Level 4- the only use for a Fubar is "making a Golem"
      Level 4 I am not sure how this differs from building a Chimera normally except maybe making it easier to get points?
      Level 5 transforms what is random chance to giving you 100 percent certainty, which is neat but... VERY limited.

      The Book of HOuses added Scathach "Feats' that were much more limited techniques that you bought for a simple point like Gifts or Rites. There's a similar concept in the Unoficial KB:Selkie SO I was thinking about turning Infusion into that. And adding a couple other unique tricks like "Chimerical Transmutation" because I want to go full on Mad Scientist Dinosaur Cloning.

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      • #18
        Level 3 is more than that, really. FUBARs are the basis of Nocker tech; Chimerical computers and superconductors and all sorts of wonders. I fear they over-simplified 4 and 5 quite a bit here, though, and left some things vague like where you get extra points from. This was originally from the Nocker book, and they forgot to remove some things, like the Attribute. My version I made 1 and 2 much more broad, allowing you to do things like temporarily, or even permanently, bolster a weak chimera.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Windthin View Post
          Level 3 is more than that, really. FUBARs are the basis of Nocker tech; Chimerical computers and superconductors and all sorts of wonders. I fear they over-simplified 4 and 5 quite a bit here, though, and left some things vague like where you get extra points from. This was originally from the Nocker book, and they forgot to remove some things, like the Attribute. My version I made 1 and 2 much more broad, allowing you to do things like temporarily, or even permanently, bolster a weak chimera.

          That's not explained in the Writeup. Explicitly the ONLY use given for FUBARs is in use for making Golems. I'd also prefer not to fall back into "you can't use modern tech in the dreaming without super powers" but even if it works from that FUBAR doesn't explain that in the write up.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Lian View Post


            That's not explained in the Writeup. Explicitly the ONLY use given for FUBARs is in use for making Golems. I'd also prefer not to fall back into "you can't use modern tech in the dreaming without super powers" but even if it works from that FUBAR doesn't explain that in the write up.
            That's what gets lost without context. Read the basic description for the Art, and note how it talks about the uses. The Nocker book goes a lot more into it, gives you the flavor of it. Nockers are one of the Kiths I am most familiar with. FUBARs are used to power most items that require electricity or magnetism.

            I don't like the higher diffs. on 4 or 5, though; I already had an instance where a PC made a golem at diff. 7 and had a bad roll that stuck him with an automaton at Intelligence 1. The new version seems to indicate you can help them grow after with points somehow, but it's vague. Diff. 9 seems like an invitation for botches and failures and wasted, malfunctioning creatures. There needs to be a way to get that diff. down or you get frustrated players who watch all of their work go down the drain time and again on one roll.
            Last edited by Windthin; 05-03-2019, 05:14 PM.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Windthin View Post

              That's what gets lost without context. Read the basic description for the Art, and note how it talks about the uses. The Nocker book goes a lot more into it, gives you the flavor of it. Nockers are one of the Kiths I am most familiar with. FUBARs are used to power most items that require electricity or magnetism.
              There are Explicit changes between 2e and C20. Two houses were made more playable. The Pooka Flaw as made less insane etc. One of which was to make the Dreaming less Technophobic. SO much of the statements in the Nocker Kithbook seem to apply less to C20 perspectives.

              BUT even if they DID This is not explained in the write up for Fubar, in the PG. THE only use given is for making Robots. THIS is a flaw of the write up no matter which way you slice it.

              Compare to Talecraft which is explicitly updated to bring it in line with with being broadly useable and doesn't assume you've read KB Eshu to get it to work.


              I don't like the higher diffs. on 4 or 5, though; I already had an instance where a PC made a golem at diff. 7 and had a bad roll that stuck him with an automaton at Intelligence 1. The new version seems to indicate you can help them grow after with points somehow, but it's vague. Diff. 9 seems like an invitation for botches and failures and wasted, malfunctioning creatures. There needs to be a way to get that diff. down or you get frustrated players who watch all of their work go down the drain time and again on one roll.[/QUOTE]

              Its a Cantrip. IT should still follow the Modifiers of a Cantrip. so If you are building your Robot in a Freehold, its difficulty 8, If you perform a basic bunk while working its 7 and so forth.. this of course means Autumn Sidhe are better at building robots than Nockers though... because they "always Fae 5" thing.

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              • #22
                There are rolls separate from the Cantrip, though, and those don't seem to have anything to do with Arts or Realms or the way Cantrips normally function. That's where my concern lies.

                Infusion at higher levels has always been a specialty field. Note, though, that you can also imbue intelligence into existing non-sentient chimera, not just automatons. And though Generation isn't explicit about the uses, it does say what FUBARs do, I just wish they'd included more of the context from the original books.

                It brings up my issues with the new Nocker Birthrights again, really, in that the new one isn't as well fleshed out. I should note that I tend to have the Nocker Bes Din heavily regulate the spread of higher levels of Infusion. Nockers tend to consider it kind of a sacred act, creating true life and intelligence, not to be done lightly or misused.
                Last edited by Windthin; 05-03-2019, 06:03 PM.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Windthin View Post
                  There are rolls separate from the Cantrip, though, and those don't seem to have anything to do with Arts or Realms or the way Cantrips normally function. That's where my concern lies.
                  No, there are only rolls for making stuff. Remember how I said that it doesn't function like an art? Those rolls are the "cantrip rolls" There is no separate Cantrip Roll. This is btw I why I don't think it should be an art..

                  Infusion at higher levels has always been a specialty field. Note, though, that you can also imbue intelligence into existing non-sentient chimera, not just automatons. And though Generation isn't explicit about the uses, it does say what FUBARs do, I just wish they'd included more of the context from the original books.
                  No, it says what people use it for. IT doesn't say what it does. If I want to make.. a Deathray with a Fubar.. how do I do so? Does it function as a glamour battery? Can I just use it as a glamour battery. Is it a required feature for making any charged Glamour effect? Does it count as a unique Mystic component? Its given no slot into the system.



                  It brings up my issues with the new Nocker Birthrights again, really, in that the new one isn't as well fleshed out. I should note that I tend to have the Nocker Bes Din heavily regulate the spread of higher levels of Infusion. Nockers tend to consider it kind of a sacred act, creating true life and intelligence, not to be done lightly or misused.
                  The Nocker Birthright needs a Long term effect along with the Macguyver bit. For example the new Alicantro

                  Wonder Workers: Alicanto enjoy working with their
                  hands and have a special knack for creating items of power.
                  Thus, they are able to forge Treasures and Wonders with
                  relative ease. They receive -2 on the difficulty of all rolls
                  related to crafting magical items, and doing so takes half the
                  time and only two-thirds of the materials it normally would.
                  Alicanto cannot botch Crafts rolls.

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                  • #24
                    Definetely some stuff above to be dropped onto the feedback form.

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                    • #25
                      Oh my god... MIDDLE EASTERN GALLAIN!

                      https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=S-cbOl96RFM


                      Check out my expansion to the Realm of Brass and Shadow

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by glamourweaver View Post
                        Oh my god... MIDDLE EASTERN GALLAIN!

                        https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=S-cbOl96RFM

                        No they are Kithain

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Lian View Post


                          No they are Kithain

                          Clearly I got the definitions wrong then. What's the distinction since apparently it isn't cultural?


                          Check out my expansion to the Realm of Brass and Shadow

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by glamourweaver View Post


                            Clearly I got the definitions wrong then. What's the distinction since apparently it isn't cultural?
                            Its important from a "what level of Fae do I need to effect you" The Jinn regularly mix "Standard" kiths so an afrit doesn't need Fae 4 to effect an Eshu or a Pooka. But Say the Spirit Beings of Australia Do(and vice versa)

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                            • #29
                              Amusingly, I already had Jinn in my setting, but I can still make it work with the new stuff. heh.

                              On Infusion, there are three rolls for 4 and 2 for 5. For 4, there are two sets of extended rolls and THEN the Cantrip. Which seems to be all or nothing, which I find disappointing, that the Cantrip roll itself does nothing other than indicate success or failure, no matter how well you do on it.

                              On 5, there are two rolls. One for the Cantrip, and then one to imbue intelligence. I've been assuming this is separate, but.... I guess if it's counted as part OF the Cantrip, instead of just building like with 4, then it could be modified via the usual methods of Glamour, bunks, etc. It doesn't specifically state it, though. It should.

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                              • #30
                                Now just to writeup up the Seā€™irim and the Peri to join the Jinn...


                                Check out my expansion to the Realm of Brass and Shadow

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