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Any more thoughts or comments about the Swan Maidens (Swan Princes)?

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  • Any more thoughts or comments about the Swan Maidens (Swan Princes)?

    I really like this kith, but it could use a little refinement. As it stands, it sends a devastating message: that you can't get sexual with someone if you truly love them. There's not even an exception built in for if your character gets married!

    Not that it's strictly relevant, but I'm curious as to whether it was a girl or a guy who created the Swan Maiden kith.


    The die is cast.

    Julius Caesar crossing the Rubicon

  • #2
    I think that's WHY so many people dislike the Kith. It represents some pretty ahh, antiquated ideas about sexuality and purity. Namely, it embodies the idea that sex in any form is always dirty and impure, a necessary evil at best. I'm not sure what it is exactly you want from a swan maiden, so I'm not sure what else I could recommend. Off the cuff you could do something similar by making a Sidhe with like, Metamorphosis? But it's not actually clear to me what it is you LIKE about the Kith. "Sexuality is bad" IS the Kith, so if you don't like that concept (I know I don't), I'm confused as to what it is about the Kith you enjoy. Beyond that, the Kith is a pretty tragic one; you can try to fight it (and if your story teller is playing correctly, you will fail) or you could lean into it I guess? Make a character whose Human nature is a modern person and views sexuality as an expression of romance, while the Kith side is the opposite? And those two natures, you know, DOOM the character? Those are like... the two stories I can see being told with a Swan maiden. Either you're pure and you like that, but die because Tragic Fate, or you're pure and you DONT like it... and die because Tragic Fate.

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    • #3
      I liked the part about giving romantic advice

      Actually, like I posted here a month or two ago, my ST let me create a Swan Maiden who can have sex without penalty as long as she loves the person. I’ve played her in two game sessions so far and I’m really enjoying it. (Technically, you could argue about whether stuff other than actual sex counts, but that hasn’t come up in the game, so it’s a moot point so far.)


      The die is cast.

      Julius Caesar crossing the Rubicon

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      • #4
        All my opinions from last time still apply. If I had to do an extensive rebuild I'd make an "Animal wife" kith that combines aspects of Selkie stuff, but that wouldn't look as much like this kith, that's really the only thing that bothers me after the last thread that Swan Maids don't do the main thing their mythic selves do(put on swan coat shapeshift).

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        • #5
          Yeah maybe they should just have a Shapeshifting lover Kith. Like the Pooka where you can pick which animal Their skin is? Like theirs a shapeshifting Love story about a a girl with a Elephant skin?

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          • #6
            My friend is playing a Selkie and his character is going out with a regular human girl who’s aware of his fae nature. Our ST just bought Isle of the Mighty, so we’re going to be traveling to England and Wales next time we play.


            The die is cast.

            Julius Caesar crossing the Rubicon

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Lian View Post
              All my opinions from last time still apply. If I had to do an extensive rebuild I'd make an "Animal wife" kith that combines aspects of Selkie stuff, but that wouldn't look as much like this kith, that's really the only thing that bothers me after the last thread that Swan Maids don't do the main thing their mythic selves do(put on swan coat shapeshift).
              Ehh we have powers for that though if they really want to turn into a swan they can. I see the complaint but We already have a lot of shapeshifting kiths. It’s like why don’t the Claurichan have a shrinking power, they don’t need it they can already hide.


              It is a time for great deeds!

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              • #8
                Yeah but you shouldn’t have to take level four in Metamorphosis to have a Swan Maiden become a swan. That’s like a Werewolf having a gift to turn into a wolf. Or a vampire having a discipline to drink blood. You kind of expect them to have it as part of the deal.

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                • #9
                  The major problem I have with the Swan Maiden is the THREE frailties that they are saddled with. A changeling of this kith would lead a short, tragic existence, though I suppose that is the point.

                  The Swan Maidens/Princes are a neat story to tap into, but I prefer this sort of thing to be the product of a curse (The Magic Swan Geese, The Seven Ravens, The Twelve Wild Ducks, Udea and her Seven Brothers, The Wild Swans, The Twelve Brothers, etc) rather than a kith. And the relational/sex magic of the kith could be a type of musing, revelry or ravaging that any kith could use, though some seem better suited than others.


                  “Humpty had always sat on walls, it was his way.”
                  Jasper Fforde, The Big Over Easy

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                  • #10
                    MythAdvocate I agree. That's why I got the ST to change the one Frailty so she doesn't literally have to live like a nun. We've played three sessions so far and my character's Dark Fate hasn't come into play, but then again she hasn't met her True Love either. Can you have more than one True Love in your life or is it literally like a once in a lifetime deal?


                    The die is cast.

                    Julius Caesar crossing the Rubicon

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Penelope View Post
                      MythAdvocate Can you have more than one True Love in your life or is it literally like a once in a lifetime deal?
                      Well now, THAT is a complicated question.

                      True Love in the sense of Storytelling should be a beautiful and terrible thing. And while love and happiness can indeed happen many times, True Love is the kind of thing you never recover from. If lost, at best it should bring a happy ache and at worst terrible pain and hurt. This is especially true for beings touched by the Dreaming.

                      In my own life, I have truly loved more than once. Some were great mistakes that hurt more than they brought joy. One seemed glorious and full of so much hoping and wonder that I thought would burst, but turned to hurt so deep that it changed me, in ways both bad and good. However, my wife and I have a different kind of love. It is passionate, loyal, steadfast and true. but it took work. There were the early days of heat, tempered with reality and devotion born of affection and shared determination. And she is my treasure.

                      But which of these are True Love? The quick fire that burns and changes you, or the love that is forged and tempered?

                      As for me, I prefer the latter.




                      “Humpty had always sat on walls, it was his way.”
                      Jasper Fforde, The Big Over Easy

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                      • #12
                        MythAdvocate I've only had the first one.


                        The die is cast.

                        Julius Caesar crossing the Rubicon

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                        • #13
                          Swan Maidens, Selkies, Piskies, they all live very specific lives that don’t mesh with every single character concept. You make the character to tell a specific story and that’s the point. It’s not like DND where it’s more permissible that anyone can be anything sure make a Gnome Deathknight warlord sure nothing matters so have fun.

                          If you want a more flexible character make a Sidhe or Eshu or something instead. Swan Maidens are tragedy magnets, if you don’t want that then it’s likely the kith isn’t right for the character. If you just want the superficial qualities yeah get a Pooka or Sidhe.


                          It is a time for great deeds!

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                          • #14
                            Eldagusto I wanted a character who was both romantic and tragic. My friend wanted a character who was sort of a player, so he picked a Selkie.


                            The die is cast.

                            Julius Caesar crossing the Rubicon

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by MythAdvocate View Post
                              The major problem I have with the Swan Maiden is the THREE frailties that they are saddled with. A changeling of this kith would lead a short, tragic existence, though I suppose that is the point.

                              The Swan Maidens/Princes are a neat story to tap into, but I prefer this sort of thing to be the product of a curse (The Magic Swan Geese, The Seven Ravens, The Twelve Wild Ducks, Udea and her Seven Brothers, The Wild Swans, The Twelve Brothers, etc) rather than a kith. And the relational/sex magic of the kith could be a type of musing, revelry or ravaging that any kith could use, though some seem better suited than others.
                              Yeah the whole three frailty thing is kind of absurd. Especially considering how bad the Dark Fate one is.

                              If you form a meaningful connection with someone either you or your Object of Affection will suffer horribly unless you instantly break up. And another frailty being you feel Heartbreak especially bad.

                              At least give them three birthrights to even it up a little, like being able to turn into a Swan,
                              Last edited by Konradleijon; 01-21-2020, 04:57 PM.

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