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How can I convince my ST that this doesn’t trigger the Mantle of the Maiden Frailty?

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  • How can I convince my ST that this doesn’t trigger the Mantle of the Maiden Frailty?

    My Swan Maiden character met someone she really likes last session. She has the chance to make out with him tonight and she’d like to go further than kissing, but she doesn’t want to be unable to regain Willpower for three days (especially since she’s low as it is). Any advice?


    Rain On Me... Lady Gaga (I went to the same academic summer camp she did) and Ariana Grande. This song actually works really well with the World of Darkness.

  • #2
    I don’t know. Why not you read up on catrips and find one that could lessen the effect of curses,

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    • #3
      Okay. Thanks.


      Rain On Me... Lady Gaga (I went to the same academic summer camp she did) and Ariana Grande. This song actually works really well with the World of Darkness.

      Comment


      • #4
        I convinced him that “intimacy” means actual sex and that just messing around shouldn’t trigger the Frailty. Thanks 😊. Ttyl.


        Rain On Me... Lady Gaga (I went to the same academic summer camp she did) and Ariana Grande. This song actually works really well with the World of Darkness.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Penelope View Post
          My Swan Maiden character met someone she really likes last session. She has the chance to make out with him tonight and she’d like to go further than kissing, but she doesn’t want to be unable to regain Willpower for three days (especially since she’s low as it is). Any advice?
          Well... there is one possibility...

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8ZF_R_j0OY

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          • #6
            Ewwwwwww!!!!

            No! I didn’t mean that. I meant like touching each other. Or maybe oral. Anyway, I got the ST to agree that it didn’t count as “intimacy.” And yeah, I know it probably sounds stupid written down in black and white, but it was important to my character.

            And that’s bullshit. Anal is so forbidden by the Bible. It’s called “sodomy.” I’m not Christian, but I remember that from Sunday school.

            But thanks. You defo made me laugh 😂.


            Rain On Me... Lady Gaga (I went to the same academic summer camp she did) and Ariana Grande. This song actually works really well with the World of Darkness.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Penelope View Post
              And that’s bullshit. Anal is so forbidden by the Bible. It’s called “sodomy.” I’m not Christian, but I remember that from Sunday school.
              .
              Well it depends. Some definitions of Sodomy require two males to be involved. Others consider it any sexual act that cannot lead to procreation(anal, oral etc). This is made especially fun with Sodomy laws being on the books.

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              • #8
                Didn’t the Supreme Court abolish those?


                Rain On Me... Lady Gaga (I went to the same academic summer camp she did) and Ariana Grande. This song actually works really well with the World of Darkness.

                Comment


                • #9
                  'Intimacy' could be about intent. Full sex can be very non-intimate with the right people. {

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                  • #10
                    True! My friend who’s playing a satyr said the same thing, that if my character was just horny, she could probably even go all the way without triggering the Frailty because it wouldn’t be “intimate,” but our ST wouldn’t go for it, so we ended up using the argument that just messing around doesn’t count. My character (Corenice) does kind of like the guy, but he’s not Kithain or even Kinain, plus she’s terrified of falling in love cause of the whole Dark Fate thing.

                    Thanks 😊


                    Rain On Me... Lady Gaga (I went to the same academic summer camp she did) and Ariana Grande. This song actually works really well with the World of Darkness.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      With Swan Maidens, "going further than kissing" probably triggers the frailty... You can talk to your ST, but I think you're fundamentally misunderstanding the Kith. Even kissing can be extraordinarily intimate, and the point of the Swan Maiden is to maintain her "purity". You keep asking how to bypass this frailty, but being sexual in basically any form is as antithetical to Swan Maidens as being dishonorable is to Trolls. Their inability to have sexual pleasure is the point of the Kith. Asking how to be sexual without triggering the Swan Maiden Frailty is like asking how to never help people in need as a Boggan, or how to be a Clurichaun without a horde. Swan Maidens keep it in their pants, or they lose willpower. Anything beyond that is a house rule.

                      As for legality, there are plenty of extremely normal sexual acts (Including even oral in some states) that are "illegal", but only because our country's base laws were made by Puritans. In some states, even pre-marital sex is illegal. Nobody is ever going to go to jail for having consensual anal.
                      Last edited by RigelJ; 02-07-2020, 10:25 PM.

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                      • #12
                        RigelJ I know. I just wanted to have my cake and eat it too. Or at least my character did. Luckily I really am pretty good at arguing and convincing people.

                        However, on a less self-centered level, I wanted to redefine the Swan Maiden kith as being about monogamy instead of purity. And sometimes while you’re searching for the ultimate happy monogamous relationship with your True Love, you end up messing around with a few other people along the way.

                        To be honest, I liked the part about the kith being good at giving romantic advice. I like sidhe and satyrs too, but my friend is playing a satyr and I’ve played a sidhe before. I wanted to try something new.

                        What do you think of my interpretation?


                        Rain On Me... Lady Gaga (I went to the same academic summer camp she did) and Ariana Grande. This song actually works really well with the World of Darkness.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Penelope View Post
                          RigelJ I know. I just wanted to have my cake and eat it too. Or at least my character did. Luckily I really am pretty good at arguing and convincing people.

                          However, on a less self-centered level, I wanted to redefine the Swan Maiden kith as being about monogamy instead of purity. And sometimes while you’re searching for the ultimate happy monogamous relationship with your True Love, you end up messing around with a few other people along the way.

                          To be honest, I liked the part about the kith being good at giving romantic advice. I like sidhe and satyrs too, but my friend is playing a satyr and I’ve played a sidhe before. I wanted to try something new.

                          What do you think of my interpretation?


                          Its a mixed bag, though an interesting one for sure. To start, I can see not wanting to step on your friends turf, in terms of not all playing the same Kith. As for trying to reinterpret Swan Maidens, I actually would agree. I think they are a little bit too far from the beaten path, with more birthrights and frailties than they should have. The Dark Fate frailty is an absolutely BRUTAL frailty (and good on you for being scared of it). Swan Maidens don't need the other frailty on top of it. I would have tweaked them a bit personally, let them have sex and lose one of their Birthrights. As for a Monogamy focus, I can certainly see the merit of having a Changeling whose core ethos stems from a desire to embody fealty or love for a single person, though I would personally have just played a Fiona Troll, or a Troll with the Troubadour legacy at that point. Alternatively, to take a page from the players guide, I think a Lycian who embodies Monogamy could be interesting.

                          I will say that it's a bit of a loaded discussion for me, because I see the concept of sexual "purity" as a way of controlling people, and, from my subjective viewpoint, think it's actually evil. Swan Maidens embody an idea I actually think hurts real people. It enforces the Slut/Prude double standard, and tells people that virginity is something they should be very concerned about, both telling men they are unfit if they are virgins, and women that there is something wrong with them if they choose to explore that part of themselves. I know way too many people my age who put knives to their bodies because they had been sexually assaulted and felt that they were no longer pure for it. I had a friend who I would console as she cried at night because her mother kept calling her a whore, despite the fact that she had never been with anyone sexually, as if that should somehow make a difference. Swan Maidens are an idea that the patriarchy puts onto people, and its wrong.

                          Now, to be clear, Changeling is a horror game, and f*ck if that isn't horror. Remember that Changeling is all about conflicting natures, and is ultimately a game about tragedy; if the Changeling you are demands this idea of sexual purity, but the human you are KNOWS that sex isn't intrinsically dirty or impure, that's an internal conflict that can be a great character arc. In a world where Swan Maidens exist, yeah, I actually think your interpretation is the only way a Swan Maiden could survive. The question is whether we want those ideas informing our culture, or whether those are stories that should maybe be left to the mists.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by RigelJ View Post

                            I know way too many people my age who put knives to their bodies because they had been sexually assaulted and felt that they were no longer pure for it.
                            Yeah. I know.

                            Thanks for listening. You’re one of the very few guys I’ve talked to who uses the word patriarchy without being ironic or sarcastic. Night.


                            Rain On Me... Lady Gaga (I went to the same academic summer camp she did) and Ariana Grande. This song actually works really well with the World of Darkness.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by RigelJ View Post
                              With Swan Maidens, "going further than kissing" probably triggers the frailty... You can talk to your ST, but I think you're fundamentally misunderstanding the Kith. Even kissing can be extraordinarily intimate, and the point of the Swan Maiden is to maintain her "purity". You keep asking how to bypass this frailty, but being sexual in basically any form is as antithetical to Swan Maidens as being dishonorable is to Trolls. Their inability to have sexual pleasure is the point of the Kith. Asking how to be sexual without triggering the Swan Maiden Frailty is like asking how to never help people in need as a Boggan, or how to be a Clurichaun without a horde. Swan Maidens keep it in their pants, or they lose willpower. Anything beyond that is a house rule.

                              As for legality, there are plenty of extremely normal sexual acts (Including even oral in some states) that are "illegal", but only because our country's base laws were made by Puritans. In some states, even pre-marital sex is illegal. Nobody is ever going to go to jail for having consensual anal.
                              shit I know but if they must not be able to have casual hookups at least make it sure you or your lover don't suffer a fate worst then death.

                              and seriously the Puritians where jerks that left Dutch because they where too tolerant

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