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Any of you find that Nunnehi and Menehune not being able to get Glamour to be odd?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by MagicJuggler View Post
    I do find the Nunnehi a little more problematic than regular Kithain, though not specifically because of Magical Native American tropes. After all, Changelings as a whole tended to be "magical folklore of a Region," personified in some form or other.

    Rather, the main issue I had with Nunnehi, is they sort of started the trend of Thallain, Hsein, Inanimae, Adhene, etc. Yanno, lots and lots of splats, some with relatively minute differences.

    By contrast, I was a fan of how Lost had the Seeming/Kith type/subtype categorization, as it helped the end product feel more unified and less innately bloated at first, while making it possible for the same "grindgnasher" able to represent Redcaps, Oni, Rock Devourers, or any other universal hunger-spirit. The Dual-Kith merit further increased options without the needed for addenda and splatbloat, since combinatorial expansion.

    While I am glad that C20 cleaned up a lot from the old Dreaming game, it feels like for a "C4" game, that having your "archetypical" Kith, as well as the *option& to layer regional/cultural templates on top, would allow for a certain degree of customization. That said and done, rather than "Native American Cultures Can Paint The Colors of the Wind," or something ultra-specific/regional, do like Civ 5 and have your "abstract" boons/duties, like "Hamadryadic" (Can Harvest, extra plant vulnerabilities), "Anchored" (aka Inanimae/Lycians having a Guise/Anchor, or "Silverbane" (barred from the Silver Path, but attuned to Paths of Balor).

    Then you would presumably have some consolidation/cross-standardization between Arts, Hsein Alchemy, Redes, and Inanimae powers.

    Yanno, both reducing gamebloat/rulelawyering, and Supernatural Unfortunate Implications.

    When I first got my hands on a copy of Changeling the Dreaming, I had thought of the various kiths as archetypes rather than "races" in standard rpg style. My assumption was that the kiths would be "re-skinned" in different cultures. Trolls could be Jotnar, Oni, Bigfoot, etc, Boggans could be Gnomes, Knooks, Menehune, Redcaps could be Awgwas, Babau, Namahage, etc. These might gain a different Birthright or Frailty, but would otherwise be the same Kith. Though I have enjoyed the different perspectives and stories that have come with different kiths, I use differing kith, and am open to players who want to try something different, but I prefer a subtle approach.

    That said, I DO like most of the Nunnehi kiths. And I like the Umbra connection as well, though I think tat going to those realms should have been an option for Kithain as well (though requiring potent Cantrips and spiritual connections). In my campaigns, the Nunnehi have mostly moved on to Umbral Realms (Alder Bole, Planetary Incarnae, Horizon Realms, etc) where they have established powerful holdings.They are NOT excluded from the Dreaming, nor are they excluded from extracting Glamour from Dreamers. For the Nunnehi, the Dreaming is just part of the Upper World (Umbra).




    “Humpty had always sat on walls, it was his way.”
    Jasper Fforde, The Big Over Easy

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    • #17
      Yeah I don’t like the Hsien they aren’t even Fae!

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      • #18
        Lo. I know it’s a common misconception that when the setters came America was pristine wilderness. In actually natives extensively changed their environment, it would make more sense if it’s the the relationship of upkeep with the land from agriculture to preserving forest in a reciprocal relationship. From Native Philosophies like musing.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by MythAdvocate View Post


          When I first got my hands on a copy of Changeling the Dreaming, I had thought of the various kiths as archetypes rather than "races" in standard rpg style. My assumption was that the kiths would be "re-skinned" in different cultures. Trolls could be Jotnar, Oni, Bigfoot, etc, Boggans could be Gnomes, Knooks, Menehune, Redcaps could be Awgwas, Babau, Namahage, etc. These might gain a different Birthright or Frailty, but would otherwise be the same Kith. Though I have enjoyed the different perspectives and stories that have come with different kiths, I use differing kith, and am open to players who want to try something different, but I prefer a subtle approach.

          That said, I DO like most of the Nunnehi kiths. And I like the Umbra connection as well, though I think tat going to those realms should have been an option for Kithain as well (though requiring potent Cantrips and spiritual connections). In my campaigns, the Nunnehi have mostly moved on to Umbral Realms (Alder Bole, Planetary Incarnae, Horizon Realms, etc) where they have established powerful holdings.They are NOT excluded from the Dreaming, nor are they excluded from extracting Glamour from Dreamers. For the Nunnehi, the Dreaming is just part of the Upper World (Umbra).

          Mind, I mostly am speaking from a crunch versus a fluff perspective, but I tend to prefer a smaller but broader baseline of toggles and switches to enable more combinations.

          For example, "Changeling versus Arcadian," especially since the older Kithbooks included examples of Arcadian Commoners, with The Wire Man from Kithbook: Nockers being a notable example. This would also let you roll up Sidhe into a single Kith as well.

          Likewise, many hyperspecific Birthrights ("can place an Art/invest Medicine into an Amulet") could be either made into Art/Realm options, Merits, Skills, integrated into core features/etc.

          Likewise, the ability to "buy" Chimera Points for Redes as a Merit, for improving your Mien with extra armor, talons, etc, and making certain Animal Features/Mien options into Redes/Mien Features. Why does a Changeling need to pay extra points for an extra set of legs, while the spider chimera can have "a bajillion" legs?

          Yanno, crunchy details like that.

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