Nunnehi sourcebook?

[The Laughing Stranger]

Howdy folks, I want to include some fey types in my historical setting; the European littlefolk don't really have the right flavor, but I can't find much of anything on the native North American changelings. Any and all help would be appreciated.

[marin]

Changeling Players Guide is the main source on the nunnehi, covering the Families (their kith-equivalents), history, and cosmological setup. Kingdom of Willows adds another Family, the thought-crafters.

[Prince of the Night]

Do they deserve their own sourcebook? I say Probaly.

but if they made one... take a look at the constant BICKERING about the kuei-jin allegedly being "Orientalist Mary Sues AWWR THEIR ALL SPECIAL SNOW FLAKES!!!"

Or the outriight contempt towards the Gypsys book because "Gypsy is a slur"

or the bashing of Chakotay on Voyager.

It would... be painfully easy for such a book to get openly mocked, however it was done.

Not trying to start a flame war just saying I think thats a major barrier to such a book being made.

[adambeyoncelowe]

I don't think we'll see a Nunnehi sourcebook any time soon. But the Player's Guide is your best bet.

[Saur Ops Specialist]

Do they deserve their own sourcebook? I say Probaly.

but if they made one... take a look at the constant BICKERING about the kuei-jin allegedly being "Orientalist Mary Sues AWWR THEIR ALL SPECIAL SNOW FLAKES!!!"

Or the outriight contempt towards the Gypsys book because "Gypsy is a slur"

or the bashing of Chakotay on Voyager.

It would... be painfully easy for such a book to get openly mocked, however it was done.

Not trying to start a flame war just saying I think thats a major barrier to such a book being made.

You do know that the actual reason that all of the above get derided is the poor approach, right? Especially WoD: Ethnic Slur, which is a perfect storm of bad ideas?

[Maggie C]

It doesn't help you right this second, I know, but the Nunnehi are included in the upcoming C20 edition.

[Prince of the Night]

You do know that the actual reason that all of the above get derided is the poor approach, right? Especially WoD: Ethnic Slur, which is a perfect storm of bad ideas?

LOVE the kuei-jin myself

Chakotay, thought his spirituality was cool when I first watched voyager while in high school.

How does the book have more problems, then the name, which for good or ill, is better known then the word "Romani" oh and some people disliked the blood purity causing them social problems

[adambeyoncelowe]

LOVE the kuei-jin myself

Chakotay, thought his spirituality was cool when I first watched voyager while in high school.

How does the book have more problems, then the name, which for good or ill, is better known then the word "Romani" oh and some people disliked the blood purity causing them social problems

No offence, but the N word was once very popular too... Popular or even recognisable does not equal right.

[Caitiff Primogen]

LOVE the kuei-jin myself

Chakotay, thought his spirituality was cool when I first watched voyager while in high school.

How does the book have more problems, then the name, which for good or ill, is better known then the word "Romani" oh and some people disliked the blood purity causing them social problems

I'm not going to say its wrong to love the Kuei-Jin, but it is disingenuous to ignore that they have some problems.

The character of Chakotay and his "spirituality" were based primarily on consultation with a guy calling himself Jamake Highwater, a self described Native American expert who has since been revealed to be a complete charlatan named Jay Marks. I wouldn't use him as your entry point into Native American culture.

WoD: Gypsies is a shit show from the outset because it takes a real group of people, a group of people with a long history of persecution and marginalization, and says that in the universe of the games which is ostensibly a reflection of our own they really are just a bunch of racist stereotypes... with magic powers! If you can't get why that's messed up you may have bigger problems.

[adambeyoncelowe]

I'm not going to say its wrong to love the Kuei-Jin, but it is disingenuous to ignore that they have some problems.

The character of Chakotay and his "spirituality" were based primarily on consultation with a guy calling himself Jamake Highwater, a self described Native American expert who has since been revealed to be a complete charlatan named Jay Marks. I wouldn't use him as your entry point into Native American culture.

WoD: Gypsies is a shit show from the outset because it takes a real group of people, a group of people with a long history of persecution and marginalization, and says that in the universe of the games which is ostensibly a reflection of our own they really are just a bunch of racist stereotypes... with magic powers! If you can't get why that's messed up you may have bigger problems.

Next up: World of Darkness: Magical Negro, for when your Uncle Tom and Noble Savage sourcebooks aren't enough!

[Caitiff Primogen]

Next up: World of Darkness: Magical Negro, for when your Uncle Tom and Noble Savage sourcebooks aren't enough!

Took the words right out of my mouth. Stop that. Put them back.

[Prince of the Night]

Charming.... made me think, the novel, "Blood in blood out" focuses a lot on race relations...

With some idiot wanting to be a vampire So he could help liberate black people.

BUT LETS NOT KID OURSELVES.

Gypsys, for good or ill, are a part of Gothic subculture.

We should not pretend otherwise.

Back on track.

Nunehi sadly, dont have a sourcebook, think its too late to lobby for one?

[Caitiff Primogen]

"Gypsies" are a part of Gothic subculture because of the way they are generally used in Gothic and other European literature. The way they were used in this context almost always came from a place of prejudice. There's nothing wrong with using the Gothic fascination with Romani, however flawed, as a jumping off point to explore their history and culture in a more honest way. However you cannot say that prejudicial views of Romani are so hardwired into the Gothic genre that they can't be criticized or corrected.

Personally I'm all for a Nunnehi source book. It isn't 1995 anymore, though. We're all definitely older and hopefully at least a little bit wiser. We have both the ability and the obligation to handle the execution of such a product with more grace than the others we've mentioned.

[Prince of the Night]

A fair point, just saying that if someone wants to bring in a cliche they find "Cool" Like the Crystal ball or such, I agree they can be corrected but someone bringing in such things shouldnt have someone leaping down their throat

One question on the issue? the actual mechanics of the Gypsy book

Think a Gypsy Mystic would be better made with the book, or with Numina? I Think its a valid question.

[Maggie C]

A fair point, just saying that if someone wants to bring in a cliche they find "Cool" Like the Crystal ball or such, I agree they can be corrected but someone bringing in such things shouldnt have someone leaping down their throat

One question on the issue? the actual mechanics of the Gypsy book

Think a Gypsy Mystic would be better made with the book, or with Numina? I Think its a valid question.

I think it would be better done if someone looks into the history, culture and practices of the people in question, treats them with the utmost of respect, does not continue to use words that have been identified directly in this thread as ethnic slurs, and does not expect to skate by with however they want to phrase things because they think their questions are valid.