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110 kith options?

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  • #16
    It's a pity the old CtD-crew never got around to do Nordic kithains (The Troll are in an odd way not at all like Nordic trolls but more of a honorable non-fomorian version of a Hrimthurs (Frostgiant)).
    The Huldra/Skogsfru would be a perfect Kith. I once tried to do a sourcebook, but failed along the way:
    https://drive.google.com/drive/folde...EU?usp=sharing

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    • #17
      Instead of detailing more and even more kiths to be specific to any individual fairy tale they found, it would have been better to make each of the original kiths more archetypal. Pooka should have been for any faerie that was an animal - not just tricksters. That would have covered any number of animal brides, talking animals, and others. "Satyrs" should have been any creature which combined parts of human and animals - not just satyrs, but centaurs, mermaids, harpies and so on. Leprechauns are simply Irish cobblers - so they are boggans. No need for their own kith. And any non-European faeries/invisible people/little people should follow the same kiths for the same reason.

      That they needed to create however many hundred plus kiths is just an indication of poor design to begin with. It's too bad because it didn't need to be that way. They were very close to achieving the elegance of the rest of the game line. There was some room for expansion, but they could probably cover almost any archetype with about twelve kiths at most.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Black Fox View Post
        Instead of detailing more and even more kiths to be specific to any individual fairy tale they found, it would have been better to make each of the original kiths more archetypal. Pooka should have been for any faerie that was an animal - not just tricksters. That would have covered any number of animal brides, talking animals, and others. "Satyrs" should have been any creature which combined parts of human and animals - not just satyrs, but centaurs, mermaids, harpies and so on. Leprechauns are simply Irish cobblers - so they are boggans. No need for their own kith. And any non-European faeries/invisible people/little people should follow the same kiths for the same reason.

        That they needed to create however many hundred plus kiths is just an indication of poor design to begin with. It's too bad because it didn't need to be that way. They were very close to achieving the elegance of the rest of the game line. There was some room for expansion, but they could probably cover almost any archetype with about twelve kiths at most.
        They appear to have realised this themselves, as they went with something similar to that proposal for Changeling: The Lost (Seeming as archetype, Kith as more specific example).


        Scion 2E: What We Know - A wiki compiling info on second edition Scion.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Black Fox View Post
          Instead of detailing more and even more kiths to be specific to any individual fairy tale they found, it would have been better to make each of the original kiths more archetypal. Pooka should have been for any faerie that was an animal - not just tricksters. That would have covered any number of animal brides, talking animals, and others. "Satyrs" should have been any creature which combined parts of human and animals - not just satyrs, but centaurs, mermaids, harpies and so on. Leprechauns are simply Irish cobblers - so they are boggans. No need for their own kith. And any non-European faeries/invisible people/little people should follow the same kiths for the same reason.

          That they needed to create however many hundred plus kiths is just an indication of poor design to begin with. It's too bad because it didn't need to be that way. They were very close to achieving the elegance of the rest of the game line. There was some room for expansion, but they could probably cover almost any archetype with about twelve kiths at most.
          I know, but part of Changeling's appeal was the vast number of kiths. It's irrational but so are people.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by marin View Post
            For reference, my original list and sources:

            Kithain:
            boggans, eshu, nockers, pooka, redcaps, satyrs, sidhe, sluagh, trolls (corebooks)
            selkies (Immortal Eyes: The Toybox)
            clurichauns (Immortal Eyes: Court of All Kings)
            ghille dhu (Isle of the Mighty)
            merfolk (Blood-Dimmed Tides)
            piskies (The Fool's Luck)
            river hags (Kithbook: Redcap)
            oba (Kithbook: Eshu)

            Thallain:
            beasties, boggarts, bogies, goblins, ogres (Shadow Court)
            murdhuacha (Blood-Dimmed Tides)
            spriggans (The Fool's Luck)
            aithu (Kithbook: Eshu)

            Menehune:
            ali'i, kahuna, hana, kokua (Immortal Eyes: Shadows on the Hill)

            Nunnehi:
            canotili, inuas, kachinas, may-may-gway-shi, nanehi, numuzo'ho, pu'gwis, rock giants, surems, tunghat, water babies, yunwi amai'yine'hi, yunwi tsundi (Players' Guide)
            thought-crafters (Kingdom of Willows)

            Hsien:
            fu hsi, hanumen, heng po, nyan, tanuki, chu-ih-yu, chu jung, hou-chi, komuko, suijen (Land of Eight Million Dreams)

            Inanimae:
            glomes, kubera, mannikins, ondines, parosemes, solimonds (Inanimae)

            Adhene:
            acheri, aonides, fir-bholg, fuath, keremet, moirae, naraka (Denizens of the Dreaming)

            Foreign-language books:
            korred, morganed (WoD: France)
            wichtel, wolpertinger (Gallain in Trolle, Träumer, tiefe Wälder; Kithain in C20)


            One I forgot was the Concordian sidhe getting added in C20, who may be based off of the Autumn Scathach in Book of Lost Houses.



            Hey guys. Does anyone have the illustrations from the book Trolle, Träumer, tiefe Wälder? I wanted the official illustrations of Gallain wichtel and wolpertinger.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Morlockiller View Post
              Hey guys. Does anyone have the illustrations from the book Trolle, Träumer, tiefe Wälder? I wanted the official illustrations of Gallain wichtel and wolpertinger.
              So, funny thing about the wichtel and the wolpertinger we discovered while creating that stretch goal. The section heading for them in Trolle, Traumer, tiefe Walder is Gallain. Their actual write-ups in the German book treat them more like chimera. The wichtel, if you squint and look at them funny could maybe be construed as a type of fae but not given any rules with which to make a player character. The wolpertinger, though, are straight up chimera in the German book.

              They're full on playable Kithain kiths in C20

              I have a copy of the book, but I don't have a scan of their illustrations. If I get a chance after I'm home from work, I'll see if I can take a picture of them. I don't expect their illustrations in C20 will look exactly like they look in the German book — especially the wolpertinger since they'll be changelings in human bodies.


              Charlie Cantrell
              Onyx Path Freelancer
              Changeling: The Dreaming 20th Anniversary Edition, Night Horrors: Conquering Heroes, Book of Freeholds

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              • #22
                Here is the wichtel:



                And the wolpertinger:

                Last edited by PookaKnight; 04-05-2017, 07:19 PM. Reason: Spoiler tags because the images are huge.


                Charlie Cantrell
                Onyx Path Freelancer
                Changeling: The Dreaming 20th Anniversary Edition, Night Horrors: Conquering Heroes, Book of Freeholds

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by PookaKnight View Post
                  Here is the wichtel:



                  And the wolpertinger:

                  Interesting...

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                  • #24
                    Cool \o/, Thanks PookaKnight . I am sad that there is no such book to buy in pdf T.T

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                    • #25
                      I'm kind of curious what the wichel is the picture makes it look like its very close to the knocker/kobald concept but I look it up on line ans its basically "those fairies who are responsible for you losing items because they steal it"

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                      • #26
                        In the German book, the wichtel are vengeful, subterranean dwelling miners who want nothing to do with surface dwellers. They're pretty clearly intended as NPC antagonists. They don't have any birthrights or frailties, and book spends about a quarter of the word count on them talking about wichtel combat tactics and strategies PCs can use to kill them.

                        I took a few liberties with the concept to turn them into a playable kith for C20 😉


                        Charlie Cantrell
                        Onyx Path Freelancer
                        Changeling: The Dreaming 20th Anniversary Edition, Night Horrors: Conquering Heroes, Book of Freeholds

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by PookaKnight View Post
                          In the German book, the wichtel are vengeful, subterranean dwelling miners who want nothing to do with surface dwellers. They're pretty clearly intended as NPC antagonists. They don't have any birthrights or frailties, and book spends about a quarter of the word count on them talking about wichtel combat tactics and strategies PCs can use to kill them.

                          I took a few liberties with the concept to turn them into a playable kith for C20 😉


                          .So, No Take Candle?

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by adambeyoncelowe View Post
                            Wow! I'm just stating my excitement here. I know there were upwards of 30 kiths in canon already, so I'm thrilled to see that we'll get 110 'kith options' (which, I assume, includes Thallain versions of most of the kiths we've already seen, plus some options for customising kiths).

                            Will we get a sneak preview of any new kiths?


                            There You Go!

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                            • #29
                              Yeah, I've seen and used that list before, which has some neat additions. However, it's non-canonical. Only some of those kiths appear in books.

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                              • #30
                                I haven't seen that before. It would be a good resource to pair with the build-a-kith rules in C20. Like adambeyoncelowe says though, most of those have never appeared in a book. I don't think any of the fan kiths in that list will be making an appearance in C20.

                                Although, the korred's birthrights and frailties seem to be a pretty decent translation from the French book (didn't read the rest of their write-up in the wiki, so can't comment on it). Whoever wrote it must have read the French book, so I'm surprised the Morganed aren't on the list too.


                                Charlie Cantrell
                                Onyx Path Freelancer
                                Changeling: The Dreaming 20th Anniversary Edition, Night Horrors: Conquering Heroes, Book of Freeholds

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