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Is it Safe to say that Formorians are EVIL No ifs ands or buts?

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  • Is it Safe to say that Formorians are EVIL No ifs ands or buts?

    we've seen a lot of hints that a major move they'll make in changeling anniversary edition is making it clear Unseelie does not mean EVIL

    is it still safe to say the Formorians are Evil?



  • #2
    Yeah, Unseelie definitely doesn't mean evil (and Seelie doesn't mean good).

    If you're of the opinion that humanity and their higher thoughts and emotions are a good thing, then the Fomorians and their spawn are definitely not something you want around.


    Charlie Cantrell
    Onyx Path Freelancer
    Changeling: The Dreaming 20th Anniversary Edition, Night Horrors: Conquering Heroes, Book of Freeholds

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    • #3
      Tricky question...
      A fomori is a bane merged with a human, but the human is still there. So I would think with a (potentially) good human in the mix the answer is: No, not evil...

      You could even argue that a bane is not evil, because they have no choice and to be evil is to make a choice...

      Evil from a POV (e.g. the PCs) yes of course, but so are Unseelie.


      So, this Zen Master walks up to a hot dog stand and says: "Make me one with everything!"

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Nonsense View Post
        Tricky question...
        A fomori is a bane merged with a human, but the human is still there. So I would think with a (potentially) good human in the mix the answer is: No, not evil...

        You could even argue that a bane is not evil, because they have no choice and to be evil is to make a choice...

        Evil from a POV (e.g. the PCs) yes of course, but so are Unseelie.
        Fomori and Fomorians are completely different things. Fomorians represent the baser dreams of mankind (fear, pain, anger, violence, etc). Although, in the books, there was always some confusion why this is so bad, as some of the regular Unseelie fae also represent the same or similar dreams. Thankfully, I think C20 will finally clarify the specific difference.
        Last edited by adambeyoncelowe; 07-18-2016, 02:52 AM.

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        • #5
          Lerned something new:-)

          I think that my second point stands true nonetheless.
          You have to be able to make a choice to be truly evil.
          Pain as a example COULD be bad, but it is not necessarily so. And evil? For a certain POV maybe, but not universally.


          So, this Zen Master walks up to a hot dog stand and says: "Make me one with everything!"

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Nonsense View Post
            Lerned something new:-)

            I think that my second point stands true nonetheless.
            You have to be able to make a choice to be truly evil.
            Pain as a example COULD be bad, but it is not necessarily so. And evil? For a certain POV maybe, but not universally.
            Well, Fomorians are definitely more at the chaotic evil end of the spectrum. I'm sure they don't see themselves as evil. In their view, they're the original rulers of the Dreaming, and they want to reclaim what's theirs. I suppose they could be primal manifestations of the Dreaming itself, before humans even existed. Or manifestations of the dreams of things like the Wyrm and the Malfeans. The books never were very clear. They were just kinda evil and there, wanting to return, for some reason so much worse than the Unseelie and the Thallain.

            From a mythological perspective, Fomorians are the equivalent of the Jotun or the Titans. They're primordial gods, representing the forces of nature and chaos. The Tuatha de Danaan, as higher gods, represent order and civilisation.

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            • #7
              What appears to have happened with the fomorians is WW's usual fluidity on things that didn't have sourcebooks of their own (see inanimae references before their book came out): initially identifying them with the fomori, then calling that into question, Book of Houses 2 identifying them with the nightmares of the original Irish, and eventually settling on Denizens of the Dreaming's take on them as the personification of all that is dark in the human spirit, seeking to gain control over the world (with priests of fomorian cults claiming they're older than humanity)..

              Given Denizens puts them power-wise at, or above, the Tuatha's level, they certainly have the potential to be much worse than the Unseelie or Thallain, who are at standard changeling level.
              Last edited by marin; 07-18-2016, 06:36 AM.


              Scion 2E: What We Know - A wiki compiling info on second edition Scion.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by adambeyoncelowe View Post
                Thankfully, I think C20 will finally clarify the specific difference.
                That was certainly the intention! I'll be able to talk more about it when the book is released, but for now I'll just say one of the things I really tried to do was make the Seelie Court and the Unseelie Court two sides of the same coin to where they're both much stronger when they act to compliment each other instead of being at odds with one another. Unfortunately for the world though, the two courts have been at each other's throats for most of their remembered history.

                As for Fomorians as being misunderstood Formori, the two share a similar name, but they have nothing to do with each other. One of goals for C20 was to make Changelings the stars of their own show. In a lot of previous sourcebooks, it seemed like C:tD was apologizing for not being Vampire, Werewolf, or Mage and would take great pains to explain how things fit into the other games. None of the other WoD games really care how they fit into each other's cosmology, and present the other game lines as being misunderstood interpretations of their own. Just like the other games, C20 assumes its cosmology is the real truth and the other supernaturals are the ones misinterpreting things.


                Charlie Cantrell
                Onyx Path Freelancer
                Changeling: The Dreaming 20th Anniversary Edition, Night Horrors: Conquering Heroes, Book of Freeholds

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                • #9
                  Leigh of the long arm chose to fight beside the forces of the Fae. even though he was a formorian is a good point.


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                  • #10
                    The Formorians are True Fae.

                    I think House Balor is going to be disappointed when they discover the Formori aren't Chaotic Evil but Blue and Orange Morality. Then again, I hope the Formorians aren't Changeling Antedeluvians either but as weakened as the Changelings were when they came to our reality. Your know, making something the Changelings can actually fight.
                    Last edited by CTPhipps; 07-18-2016, 03:23 PM.

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                    • #11
                      Was thinking another way House Balor could be disappointed, by the Formorians barely even NOTING their service.

                      Or seeing them as TAINTED.


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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Prince of the Night View Post
                        Was thinking another way House Balor could be disappointed, by the Formorians barely even NOTING their service.

                        Or seeing them as TAINTED.
                        Hell, what service? As far as the Formorians are concerned, the Balor have just been being assholes in their name for a few millennium while their ancestors were imprisoned in various locations across the Dreaming.

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                        • #13
                          In house Balors Imagination... grand and devoted service with their scheme to plunge earth into eternal nightmares.


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                          • #14
                            I admit, I only had one encounter with a Formorian in my current game. The PCs failed to stop a summoning ritual and a giant 14 foot adolescent girl came through a portal, shrunk down the ritemaster, and carried her off to play with ala Changeling: the Lost.

                            The PCs agreed to never speak of this again.

                            On my forum games on the Old WoD boards, I had more elaborate ones which even got me a mention in the Final Changeling book.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by PookaKnight View Post
                              If you're of the opinion that humanity and their higher thoughts and emotions are a good thing, then the Fomorians and their spawn are definitely not something you want around.
                              Well, that would still depend on if you play something from the last few chapters of the book, Charlie. Higher thoughts and emotions are such .. delicious... breeding grounds for a certain variety of the stuff of dreams.


                              Krister M. Michl
                              Glamour Enthusiast

                              Onyx Path Freelancer: Changeling: The Dreaming 20th Anniversary Edition

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