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October Daye Series and Changeling

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  • October Daye Series and Changeling

    I was wondering if anyone else was a fan of the October Daye series and, if so, how would you change the rules of Changeling to reflect the nature of the Fair Folk in her world? If you are not familiar with the series and are a fan of Changeling, I would suggest running down to the public library and checking it out. It is written by Seanan McGuire and is honestly what Changeling should have been.

  • #2
    Honestly, it has slightly more in common with Dark Ages: Fae than it does with Changeling: The Dreaming. at least rules wise. It wouldn't take much to update those rules to a modern setting but would require some tweaks to better reflect what you're going for.

    Seeming would have to be removed outright and replaced with the dark ages rules to better reflect the fae blood vs. human blood dynamic and themes that permeate Toby's world. Changelings would be fine for Toby!Changelings. DarkAges!Firstborn would work well enough for Pure Bloods, but Toby!First Born are something else entirely and not really well suited for player characters. (No one needs to be running around playing the Luideag or Blind Michael). Also throw in something similar to Dreaming's Kinnian.

    You'll also want to figure out the various Kiths and Races and how those rules interact with the rules above. For example what abilities would you give the Daoine Sidhe or the Tuatha De Dannan as opposed to The Dreaming's Sidhe. and then there is the subject of interbreeding between kiths. Oleander is Peri and Tuatha De Dannan and has traits of both races.

    The magic system in DA:Fae works pretty well just remember that even most Pure Bloods aren't able to pull off anything TOO CRAZY. Luidaeg not withstanding.

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    • #3
      As I've mentioned in other threads, I strongly suspect that the October Daye series is based on an old Changeling: the Dreaming campaign. The systems, the metaphysics of the setting - even the naming conventions are the same. There are a couple of tweaks here and there . . . but really, it reads like a C:tD game with some house rules thrown in.

      Off-hand, the only big rules change would involve the dawn. Any cantrip or birthright ability exposed to the first rays of dawn would be automatically neutralized. Similarly, any fae out and about at that time automatically loses initiative, until the sun is fully over the horizon.

      Originally posted by DeeDee View Post
      Honestly, it has slightly more in common with Dark Ages: Fae than it does with Changeling: The Dreaming. at least rules wise. It wouldn't take much to update those rules to a modern setting but would require some tweaks to better reflect what you're going for.

      Seeming would have to be removed outright and replaced with the dark ages rules to better reflect the fae blood vs. human blood dynamic and themes that permeate Toby's world. Changelings would be fine for Toby!Changelings. DarkAges!Firstborn would work well enough for Pure Bloods, (. . .)

      (. . .) You'll also want to figure out the various Kiths and Races and how those rules interact with the rules above. For example what abilities would you give the Daoine Sidhe or the Tuatha De Dannan as opposed to The Dreaming's Sidhe. and then there is the subject of interbreeding between kiths. Oleander is Peri and Tuatha De Dannan and has traits of both races.

      The magic system in DA:Fae works pretty well just remember that even most Pure Bloods aren't able to pull off anything TOO CRAZY. Luidaeg not withstanding.[/SIZE]
      I'd argue that most of that's just a re-badging of standard changeling kiths. The Cait Sidhe are pretty much an all-cat variant on the Pooka, while the Tuatha are Eshu with a lot of Wayfare.

      As for making the purebloods outright fae (rather than changelings) - I don't think you have to go that far. Not to get into spoilers, but there are reasons Toby's magic isn't as powerful as the pureblood sidhe. Once those are overcome, the power gap disappears. And given how blatantly even her trusted allies have lied to her, I wouldn't even trust the human/fae blood part of the explanation - although again, that could be handled with a simple re-badging/tweak to the splat origin story.

      First Born are something else entirely and not really well suited for player characters. (No one needs to be running around playing the Luideag or Blind Michael). Also throw in something similar to Dreaming's Kinnian.
      Blind Michael is pretty much a textbook Lost One, and Toby's mother seems to be one, too. As for the Luideag (sea witch fae) . . . she'd be more complicated, but you could probably repurpose those same rules (perhaps requiring her to stay within smelling distance of the sea at all times, rather than binding her to a particular freehold) . . .

      I agree, though - players shouldn't be running characters like them. They're just too powerful, and their mindset is just too alien. Might make interesting mentors/antagonists, though.

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      • #4
        I would think that the purebloods would be the equivalent of Changelings in CtD while the changelings would be the equivalent of Kinain in CtD. I think that you would have to make Glamour more plentiful to reflect the level of faerie magic, perhaps allowing a recovery of one point per day for Kinain and one point per hour for purebloods?

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        • #5
          Originally posted by One Vorlon View Post
          As I've mentioned in other threads, I strongly suspect that the October Daye series is based on an old Changeling: the Dreaming campaign. The systems, the metaphysics of the setting - even the naming conventions are the same. There are a couple of tweaks here and there . . . but really, it reads like a C:tD game with some house rules thrown in.


          I'd agree except it has literally nothing to do with banality or chimerical reality which is two things that you can't really separate from Changeling: The Dreaming.

          [QUOTE=One Vorlon;n958893]Off-hand, the only big rules change would involve the dawn. Any cantrip or birthright ability exposed to the first rays of dawn would be automatically neutralized. Similarly, any fae out and about at that time automatically loses initiative, until the sun is fully over the horizon.[/QUOTE]

          I'd completely forgotten about that good call. but that's not the only big rule change


          [QUOTE=One Vorlon;n958893]I'd argue that most of that's just a re-badging of standard changeling kiths. The Cait Sidhe are pretty much an all-cat variant on the Pooka, while the Tuatha are Eshu with a lot of Wayfare.[/QUOTE]

          Yeah, but the Cait Sidhe aren't pooka. They have the shapeshifting in common and that's really it, and that's only the purebloods. the Tuatha can teleport as a birthright. I'm not saying don't do it, I'm saying that you're going to have to do a lot of let work to get the birthrights and frailities to fit.

          Originally posted by One Vorlon View Post
          As for making the purebloods outright fae (rather than changelings) - I don't think you have to go that far. Not to get into spoilers, but there are reasons Toby's magic isn't as powerful as the pureblood sidhe. Once those are overcome, the power gap disappears. And given how blatantly even her trusted allies have lied to her, I wouldn't even trust the human/fae blood part of the explanation - although again, that could be handled with a simple re-badging/tweak to the splat origin story.


          Toby and Armadine are literally special and unique cases for very spoilery reasons. they are not indicative of the universal whole and the text clearly states that changelings have less power over all and magics affect them differently, (Goblin Fruits and just general mortality are good examples.) likewise, Marsha is far closer to Kinnian than Toby or any other changeling is, as she can't even see faerie without special ointment, (which works very well for enchantment!)

          I would agree with you that it has a lot in common with C:tD and works great for inspiration, it would take some work though.


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          • #6
            So, everyone of the Fair Folk breeds would have one special birthright that are much more powerful that the birthrights of CtD. The Cait Sidhe have two special birthrights, the ability to shapeshift into a cat form and the ability to travel the Shadow Roads. The Cu Sidhe also have two special birthrights, the ability to shapeshift into a faerie dog and the ability to shapeshift into a normal dog. The Cait Sidhe and Cu Sidhe also seem to keep their animal senses in their human form, which may be a third special birthright in its own right.

            The October Daye series does not need or support Chimerical reality. The 'animals' of the faerie, the rose goblins, wyverns, etc, have their own innate magic that hides them from the senses of the mortal world (and you have other things that take care of their corpses when they do die). Of course, I am sure that a human would eventually notice a persistent rose goblin as something different than a cat, but their reactions seem to be closer to the Delirium than the Mists, as stronger willed humans seem to be capable of remembering and weaker willed humans tend to forget anything that does not fit their cultural narrative.

            Banality is another interesting difference. While iron is death to the faerie and their magics (and while dawn is painful to faerie and damaging to their magics outside of their special places), there does not seem to be an equivalent of banality in the October Daye series. Of course, there do not seem to be the equivalent of werewolves and vampires (unlike the Lost Girl TV series), so they may just be rare supernatural phenomena unrelated to Faerie.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Aya Tari View Post
              So, everyone of the Fair Folk breeds would have one special birthright that are much more powerful that the birthrights of CtD. The Cait Sidhe have two special birthrights, the ability to shapeshift into a cat form and the ability to travel the Shadow Roads. The Cu Sidhe also have two special birthrights, the ability to shapeshift into a faerie dog and the ability to shapeshift into a normal dog. The Cait Sidhe and Cu Sidhe also seem to keep their animal senses in their human form, which may be a third special birthright in its own right.

              The October Daye series does not need or support Chimerical reality. The 'animals' of the faerie, the rose goblins, wyverns, etc, have their own innate magic that hides them from the senses of the mortal world (and you have other things that take care of their corpses when they do die). Of course, I am sure that a human would eventually notice a persistent rose goblin as something different than a cat, but their reactions seem to be closer to the Delirium than the Mists, as stronger willed humans seem to be capable of remembering and weaker willed humans tend to forget anything that does not fit their cultural narrative.

              Banality is another interesting difference. While iron is death to the faerie and their magics (and while dawn is painful to faerie and damaging to their magics outside of their special places), there does not seem to be an equivalent of banality in the October Daye series. Of course, there do not seem to be the equivalent of werewolves and vampires (unlike the Lost Girl TV series), so they may just be rare supernatural phenomena unrelated to Faerie.
              Cait Sidhe also seem to be a bit stronger and faster and fae in general (at least pure bloods and first born) are MUCH tougher than a changeling would be, (they can soak lethal damage) and heal much quicker. they would still take agravated damage from fire, iron and possibly silver. it at least takes silver and iron combined to take out a first born.

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              • #8
                I do not think that they take aggravated damage from silver necessarily, I think that silver just circumvents their lethal soak, which would still make silver more lethal to them that anything but iron. In the case of the Firstborn, I think that you have to effectively kill them twice, once with iron to get rid of their invulnerability and once with silver to end their life. If they are just 'killed' with iron or silver, they will come back, and I do not think conventional weapons can kill them at all. I am not quite sure if they treat fire as aggravated damage or if they treat it as lethal damage, I do not think that they take greater damage from it than mortals do (and I actually think that they can soak the damage). As for the Cait Sidhe, remember that we are used to seeing the capabilities of a King (Tybolt), and the Kings and Queens of the Cait Sidhe are granted special powers beyond that of normal Cait Sidhe (I would put them on par with the Werewolves of classic WoD).

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