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Is Mage actually more appropriate for Science Fiction than Changeling?

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  • Is Mage actually more appropriate for Science Fiction than Changeling?

    In my mind, Science Fiction represents the dreams of the future, so I see Science Fiction as fitting more within the realm of Changeling than Mage (similar to the idea that Fantasy and Horror are actually more fitting for Changeling than Mage). While there are Mage factions that use Hyperscience (or something similar), they really are antithetical to the dreams of Science Fiction and, quite frankly, their members are more likely to be accountants who watch baseball because they enjoy the statistics (or baseball players who take up accounting because they never made the big leagues) than science fiction fans. However, in the Deep Dreaming, you can find any dream, and Science Fiction fills the dreams of hundreds of millions of people (how many people have watched Aliens, Anime, Star Trek, Star Wars, etc), so Changelings could travel the Deep Dreaming to Realms that correspond to Science Fiction series. There, they could join the crew of the U.S.S. Enterprise or fight with the Rebel Alliance against the Empire (or they could hijack the Enterprise or a Star Destroyer in an attempt to bring it back to the real world). What are your thoughts?

  • #2
    Mage has the Sons of Ether, the tradition the literally embodies Sci-Fi.

    Ok, now I've got that out of the way. One of the biggest problems with this is how Changelings cannot survive in banal environments. I know you could argue that "Sci-fi isn't banal!" and I would agree, except that the changeling's definition of banality is not just about imagination, but about accepting whimsy over hard facts and Feel over Think. To a changeling, Star Trek would be horrendously banal, but Star Wars would fair a bit better.

    So I'd say Mage would be better for Scifi stuff, especially an all Etherite game, than a Changeling game which is going to have banality as a lingering factor.


    Keepers of the Wyck: A Chronicle I'm running UPDATE Chapter 29: The Calm

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    • #3
      Would it be banal though if the Changelings were exploring the Deep Dreaming? And Star Trek has as little to do with facts as Star Wars, so I doubt that it would be any more banal than Star Wars.

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      • #4
        It's not about facts. Or truth. It's the attitude. The "We're here to examine things reasonably." "We're going to use our heads and think things through." It's less an objective thing than an attitude. You could probably use the trappings of sci fi in changeling with little to no problems. But actually constructing a reasonable sci-fi story?

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Aya Tari View Post
          In my mind, Science Fiction represents the dreams of the future, so I see Science Fiction as fitting more within the realm of Changeling than Mage (similar to the idea that Fantasy and Horror are actually more fitting for Changeling than Mage). While there are Mage factions that use Hyperscience (or something similar), they really are antithetical to the dreams of Science Fiction and, quite frankly, their members are more likely to be accountants who watch baseball because they enjoy the statistics (or baseball players who take up accounting because they never made the big leagues) than science fiction fans. However, in the Deep Dreaming, you can find any dream, and Science Fiction fills the dreams of hundreds of millions of people (how many people have watched Aliens, Anime, Star Trek, Star Wars, etc), so Changelings could travel the Deep Dreaming to Realms that correspond to Science Fiction series. There, they could join the crew of the U.S.S. Enterprise or fight with the Rebel Alliance against the Empire (or they could hijack the Enterprise or a Star Destroyer in an attempt to bring it back to the real world). What are your thoughts?
          Overly narrow genre conventions are overly narrow pidgeon-holey crap. You can set a game in some futuristic setting and go for either hope or fear. You can set a game in the past and evoke terror or joy. Enjoy the collage:


          I seem to have acquired a site for running play by post games. This is unexpected and frightening and come watch either the glorious play or the magnificent train wreck:

          The Malkavian Madness Network

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Enginseer-42 View Post
            It's not about facts. Or truth. It's the attitude. The "We're here to examine things reasonably." "We're going to use our heads and think things through." It's less an objective thing than an attitude. You could probably use the trappings of sci fi in changeling with little to no problems. But actually constructing a reasonable sci-fi story?

            Right so changeling works for Every Scifi Movie Hollywood has ever made(especially Promethean and Avatar!)

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Lian View Post


              Right so changeling works for Every Scifi Movie Hollywood has ever made(especially Promethean and Avatar!)
              I think it's more a sliding scale from Flash Gordon to 2001: A Space Odyssey


              Keepers of the Wyck: A Chronicle I'm running UPDATE Chapter 29: The Calm

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Lian View Post


                Right so changeling works for Every Scifi Movie Hollywood has ever made(especially Promethean and Avatar!)
                Yes, Yes it does.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Enginseer-42 View Post

                  Yes, Yes it does.


                  As long as we admit that maybe only the hardest of hard Scifi might not count for the Dreaming so the vast majority of anything anyone has ever seen that they would think of as scifi works.

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                  • #10
                    If we start admitting things like that, the entire basis for the banality of the modern world starts to crumble.


                    Mage: The Ice-ension: An Epic Game of Reality on the Rink

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                    • #11
                      In my mind, Science Fiction represents the dreams of the future, so I see Science Fiction as fitting more within the realm of Changeling than Mage
                      As someone who hasn't played Changeling, but is aware of the Technocratic Union, can you please elaborate on this thought? Isn't the Union literally made up science to justify magic? Sorry if this is an ignorant thought.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Ramnesis View Post
                        If we start admitting things like that, the entire basis for the banality of the modern world starts to crumble.
                        Not necessarily, as Banality is a measure of how poorly you dream and wonder (or fear and have nightmares), and the future that you get isn't necessarily/probably isn't the future that you dreamt of.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Monalfie View Post
                          As someone who hasn't played Changeling, but is aware of the Technocratic Union, can you please elaborate on this thought? Isn't the Union literally made up science to justify magic? Sorry if this is an ignorant thought.
                          The Union doesn't dream of the future; in Mage, it has it on a schedule, and in other games, it probably still has some kind of strict regulatory plan in place, to the extent that it can manage in a crossover setting. Step off the schedule or disrupt the plan, and you get removed (killing people will net you temporary Banality, so if you're fine with disappearing people for the sake of a conspiracy, you probably have a lot of it).

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                          • #14
                            The Union seeks to limit and to regulate magic, they are more bureaucrats and accountants than they are scientists. Science is actually something that the Union is not too found of because Science is a hydra (for every question that is answered, two more are spawned). In fact, most magical traditions have been experimental and scientific in their approach throughout history, as magicians and witches have always sought wonder and strived for understanding.

                            While people may claim that we have advanced plenty in the last fifty years, the greatest scientific achievement in history was the Apollo Mission. Everything developed since then has been a distraction to prevent the Banality of the Masses from being washed away by the Dream of Space, the Dream of a Better Future. The Union was instrumental in killing the Dream of Space and, if the Union had not interfered, the Dream of Space would have caused the return of the Dreaming and the strengthening of the sense of wonder of the world. Instead of embracing the Dream of Space, the Union drowned humanity in accounting tricks and bureaucratic nightmares, seeking to kill the Dream of Space with Banality.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Saikou View Post

                              I think it's more a sliding scale from Flash Gordon to 2001: A Space Odyssey
                              Was going to quote your earlier but this one works even better. There can be a lot of Banality even in Star Trek, for example, everyone is dressed the same and even have colors to denote what they do. Star Wars can have the mythical force until it is explained with midiclorians, or however you spell it. Now for a Mage reference SoE are not as banal as ItX but they still want to define to much. Could go ona bit longer but I would begin to ramble.

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