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The Demographics of Mage

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  • The Demographics of Mage

    These charts include only canonical mages, and include unnamed magi, but should contain 95 - 99% of all mentioned mages in the oWoD. Where appropriate, quoted populations (e.g. the 300 Bata'a) have been included. There are some minor gaps that will close as the project finalizes. In the predecessors one, Sorceror's Crusade and Dark Ages magi have been lumped into their most likely successor factions, and the breakdowns by craft/convention/tradition use the no-predecessors base. As it is impossible in most cases to be sure a mage is actually alive, the 'live or dead' chart is a bare minimum. More charts will follow as I continue to refine and examine the data. If you have any questions or requests, feel free to ask.

    San Fran ratio update! Mages have 1:47,000 for the bay area as a whole and 1:5,400 if we use just San Francisco. Add the other supernaturals and the Bay Area ratio becomes 1:13,000. If they all met in the city one day, just because, San Francisco would temporarily have a ratio of 1:1500.

    Other cities with a high mage:mortal ration:
    -Richmond, VA at 1:19,500.
    -Prince Albert, Sasketchawan, at 1:3200.
    -Hong Kong, at 1:28,500.
    -Charleston, South Carolina at either 1:4800 or 1:33,250 for the greater metropolitan area.
    -Tryon, North Carolina at a terrifying 1:130. All Verbena. There are more verbena in that particular backwater than there are Asians or Native Americans.
    -Seattle, at 1:18,200.
    -Las Vegas, NV, is at 1:19,000. That book, ironically, gave us the mage figure of 1:150,000, while even at the greater municipal area the ratio is only 1:81,000. Of course, those ratios are averages, etc.



    Last edited by loomer; 01-26-2017, 10:11 AM.

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    • #3
      I love how vague the "not dead" part is. It's like "now, we're not saying they are alive exactly, but they are certainly not dead yet."
      Last edited by Saikou; 01-26-2017, 08:26 AM.


      Keepers of the Wyck: A Chronicle I'm running UPDATE Chapter 22: The Morning After

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      • #4
        It's the equivalent of a shrug and a 'who knows, man, who knows.' really.

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        • #5

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          • #6
            Sometimes I wish I could give you some kind of permanent kudos, Loomer. Your statistics posts are verrrrry neat. Thanks for the charts!

            I am actually surprised at how interestingly kindof-even the essences are distributed.

            P.s. Filthy Hermetics!


            > Classic WoD Dice Probability Chart
            > Classic WoD Dice Statistics Calculator
            > Classic WoD Alternative Armor System
            > Classic WoD Alternative Damage Roll System

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            • #7
              These graphics are awesome. Great job!


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              • #8
                Originally posted by Ambrosia View Post
                Sometimes I wish I could give you some kind of permanent kudos, Loomer. Your statistics posts are verrrrry neat. Thanks for the charts!

                I am actually surprised at how interestingly kindof-even the essences are distributed.

                P.s. Filthy Hermetics!
                I'm reasonably sure I didn't document a lot of the essences, but I'd expect them to be mostly even for two reasons. One, their nature means they should be. Two, what we see is a snapshot of representation as opposed to 'reality' (the changeling stats are a great example with how disproportionate the Sidhe are) and as a result, we tend to see a broader spread with more outliers, so even if they wouldn't tend towards mostly even in nature, their representation would anyway.

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                • #9

                  If we exclude the 1-member cabals (which is where we only have one identified member, usually a leader or envoy. One person does not a cabal make.) we get an average of 5.9 mages per cabal. If we include them, 4.5 magi per cabal is where we should sit at, which does seem about right. If we take the 5.9 per cabal and apply it across the board, then those 56 1-man cabals should actually host around 330 mages that we don't know of.

                  EDIT:
                  I feel like a technocrat doing all this number crunching to infer the existence of Unknown Actors.
                  Last edited by loomer; 01-26-2017, 10:52 AM.

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                  • #10
                    loomer That cabal stuff seems about right, though I'd expect a few more 13 number cabals since this is a pretty important number for the Verbena, which tend to be small anyway.

                    What I find interesting is 4-6 players is about the number most STs agree are a reasonable number to play a game with. You can play games with fewer though they tend to be much shorter, while more than 6 becomes unwieldy pretty quick.


                    Keepers of the Wyck: A Chronicle I'm running UPDATE Chapter 22: The Morning After

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                    • #11
                      Up next is nationalities, though for that I'm taking a slightly different tack that introduces new uncertainties. The majority of mages never have a nationality specified (with it being generally assumed, one imagines, that 'Andrew McClyde' in Scotland is a Scotsman etc), or a birthplace, so I'm assuming that where not stated a mage located in America who is not otherwise noted as being from somewhere else and who has a name relatively common in America (e.g. John Smith, Alfred Hernandez, Sara Cho, but probably not Ngome Mandela) is American, a mage in China with a name common to China is Chinese, etc. This means that I have to add new layers of 'reasonable assumption' data to the set, which is taking time, but I'll hopefully have it up in the next week or so, and better yet, have it seperated by time period (so that books set in the Sorceror's Crusade don't skew the modern or Dark Ages data, and vice versa.)

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                      • #12
                        This is really cool - great work

                        It looks from the mage:mortal ratios that mages outnumber most of the other types of supernatural creature by a great deal?

                        However this isn't a point that's raised in the books as far as I know, I've always assumed, from the 'fluff' that mages are no more populous than any other type of supernatural

                        Very interesting.

                        Has anyone done something similar for Vampire? I'm curious as to wether or not the 1:100,000 ratio matches up

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Dogstar View Post
                          It looks from the mage:mortal ratios that mages outnumber most of the other types of supernatural creature by a great deal?

                          However this isn't a point that's raised in the books as far as I know, I've always assumed, from the 'fluff' that mages are no more populous than any other type of supernatural
                          I actually always assumed Mages one the least populous of the 5 Major game lines. Old ratios off the top of my head were:
                          VtM: 1:100,000
                          Werewolf: about 14,000 (so 1:500,000)
                          Mages: 1: 1,000,000 (these numbers were later changed a bit since it didn't leave enough for all of the factions)
                          so Mages+Sorcerers: 1:150,000 (with sorcerers outnumbering Mages 3:1)

                          Again, these are from memory (and not necessarily updated to newer materials). And obviously people change how these numbers work (especially the writers) whenever they see fit.
                          Originally posted by Dogstar View Post
                          Has anyone done something similar for Vampire? I'm curious as to wether or not the 1:100,000 ratio matches up
                          I know loomer has done one for Changelings found here.
                          I would guess (from previous threads) that he/she is working on the others as well and they just haven't been posted yet.


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                          • #14
                            I am indeed working on the others, and so far vampires are actually the most populous. Also, it has to be said that the average mage:mortal ratio is quite lower than the exceptional figures I quote here - for instance, all the known American magi only bring the country to a 1:400,000 ratio, even if some towns are super-dense.

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                            • #15
                              For an example of the kind of ratios we're talking about as a maximum figure from the dataset (that is, without differentiating by time frame but also without arbitrarily allocating locations) the bare minimum global ratio, including mages we know nothing about or who live in the Umbra, is 1:842,500.

                              Nationwise, using the same available dataset with the same rules, the lowest is Hong Kong at 1:31,100 (of which the vast majority are Wu Keng), with Greenland at a close tie at 1:57,000. The highest is Brazil, which - having only two mages actually specifically known or at least noted to be there - is only 1:92,000,000.

                              The areas we might decide are most representative (Europe and America, which received vastly more coverage and so have higher numbers whether or not their actual populations are higher), vary from Greenland's 1 Mage low to the UK's representative low of 1:333,333, up to a high of Belgium's 1:10,000,000. If we take all of them together as our sample population, and treat only nations with mages as part of the stew, we come out to 1:815,000 - very close to our 'global' ratio. This of course skips the likely silent majority of mages who never got tagged in the books (e.g., I doubt very much Belgium has only one active mage), but is our absolute lowest minimum ratio for representation. If we remove Dark Ages etc we'll probably drift up to 1:1,000,000 territory, which may establish that older ratio not as the real ratio, but as the minimum ratio as represented in the published setting.

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