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M20 rule question about Willpower

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  • M20 rule question about Willpower

    Pg 330 describes the uses of willpower. The one that concerns me is "By spending a point of Willpower, you can get one automatic success for a single action. You may spend only one Willpower point per turn this way, but you can use several Willpower points to gain successes over the course of an extended action." Does this use allow you to get a single auto success on ANY action? Is there a limitation?

  • #2
    Originally posted by PazuzuAxelf View Post
    Pg 330 describes the uses of willpower. The one that concerns me is "By spending a point of Willpower, you can get one automatic success for a single action. You may spend only one Willpower point per turn this way, but you can use several Willpower points to gain successes over the course of an extended action." Does this use allow you to get a single auto success on ANY action? Is there a limitation?
    I vaguely remember that you can't use Willpower on reactive rolls; things that are reflexive and don't give the character enough time for concentration. I might be completely making that up, though, because that might just be a house rule that an ST used for me that I took to be official. You can't use Willpower on Humanity rolls in Vampire, for instance, but that's Vampire. Basically, I usually assume you can spend Willpower unless it's otherwise stated.



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    • #3
      I'd say yes. You can expend willpower on any roll at all, be it Arete, Mundane skills, Soak, Dodging, or whatever.
      Willpower is always there to help you.


      Keepers of the Wyck: A Chronicle I'm running FINALE: Chapter 39: Green Fairy

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      • #4
        The only rolls other than virtues in Vampire that Willpower can't be used for are Willpower Rolls.

        And remember Willpower only prevents a botch, it does not guarantee success as 1s can remove it as with any other success.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Tuch View Post
          And remember Willpower only prevents a botch, it does not guarantee success as 1s can remove it as with any other success.
          Not quite

          Mage Revised pp.126:
          "By spending a Willpower point, a mage can get an automatic success on an action. He can use only one point per turn this way, though an extended action over several turns could benefit from multiple expenditures. Such a success adds directly to the roll, without counting against any of the dice. Obviously, such an expenditure also prevents the possibility of a botch."


          Keepers of the Wyck: A Chronicle I'm running FINALE: Chapter 39: Green Fairy

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          • #6
            Thats revised. V20 and M20 no longer guarantee success if a 1 removes the auto success

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Tuch View Post
              Thats revised. V20 and M20 no longer guarantee success if a 1 removes the auto success
              Though M20 does not specifically state this to be the case.


              Keepers of the Wyck: A Chronicle I'm running FINALE: Chapter 39: Green Fairy

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              • #8
                Originally posted by PazuzuAxelf View Post
                Pg 330 describes the uses of willpower. The one that concerns me is "By spending a point of Willpower, you can get one automatic success for a single action. You may spend only one Willpower point per turn this way, but you can use several Willpower points to gain successes over the course of an extended action." Does this use allow you to get a single auto success on ANY action? Is there a limitation?
                There is a limitation - the number of willpower points you have.

                Originally posted by Tuch View Post
                Thats revised. V20 and M20 no longer guarantee success if a 1 removes the auto success
                V20 explicitly states that the willpower success can not be taken away.

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                • #9
                  Huh, I thought V20 read the same, oh well. We play it as it can be lost to excessive 1s and only prevents a botch. Actually since before V20. Either way Willpower expenditures have a very positive effect on a roll, and if people prefer it not to be removable then it seems at least RAW doesn't prevent it.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Tuch View Post
                    The only rolls other than virtues in Vampire that Willpower can't be used for are Willpower Rolls.
                    (Not home/near my books, so can't check right now to clarify vs. M/V/20...)

                    Is that new to --20, and I just never noticed it? -- you could spend Willpower on virtually any roll (unless specifically cited otherwise) in Revised/earlier, including Willpower rolls (such as to resist a mind-altering effect, or to resist giving in to torture/interrogation, what-have-you...). That is, there were specific rules instances where you couldn't spend a WP on a Willpower roll (that is, get the success added to the dice roll) because you had to (in the same turn) spend a WP in order to *get* the Willpower roll, but that was predicated on the idea that barring exceptional circumstances (such as, in the DA setting, the most powerful Hermetics being able to spend 2 points per turn due to their exceptional Modus Foundation) you can't spend more than one WP per turn. But sans the initial cost for "x" reason, you *can* spend a WP on a Willpower roll. (Like I said, though, not home/near books right this minute...)


                    I have been around here for waaaayyyy too fucking long...

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Just John, Forever... View Post

                      (Not home/near my books, so can't check right now to clarify vs. M/V/20...)

                      Is that new to --20, and I just never noticed it? -- you could spend Willpower on virtually any roll (unless specifically cited otherwise) in Revised/earlier, including Willpower rolls (such as to resist a mind-altering effect, or to resist giving in to torture/interrogation, what-have-you...). That is, there were specific rules instances where you couldn't spend a WP on a Willpower roll (that is, get the success added to the dice roll) because you had to (in the same turn) spend a WP in order to *get* the Willpower roll, but that was predicated on the idea that barring exceptional circumstances (such as, in the DA setting, the most powerful Hermetics being able to spend 2 points per turn due to their exceptional Modus Foundation) you can't spend more than one WP per turn. But sans the initial cost for "x" reason, you *can* spend a WP on a Willpower roll. (Like I said, though, not home/near books right this minute...)
                      No, Tutch is wrong, just as he was wrong about every other thing he said in this thread. It's uncanny. You can spend Willpower on Virtue rolls too.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Kammerer View Post
                        No, Tutch is wrong, just as he was wrong about every other thing he said in this thread. It's uncanny. You can spend Willpower on Virtue rolls too.
                        Not Conscience. No amount of Ego will allow you to get over eating that baby.

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                        • #13
                          If I have Mind 1 Multitask on with me, giving me the power of several minds at once, could I spend more than 1 WP? Or, to be specific, 1 WP per "mind" that I have?

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Karlgust View Post
                            If I have Mind 1 Multitask on with me, giving me the power of several minds at once, could I spend more than 1 WP? Or, to be specific, 1 WP per "mind" that I have?
                            I'd say 1 WP per task. If you were doing multiple tasks, then perhaps. But not more than 1 WP per task.


                            Keepers of the Wyck: A Chronicle I'm running FINALE: Chapter 39: Green Fairy

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Saikou View Post

                              I'd say 1 WP per task. If you were doing multiple tasks, then perhaps. But not more than 1 WP per task.
                              A case could be made for Time 3, because you take several turns at once. But as a ST I would say that your will is too busy to struggle with time to give you more juice than usual.

                              If you use an effect tailored to empower you to spend several WP at once... I'd say yes.

                              Force of Will
                              (Time 3, Mind 3)
                              Each success lowers the difficulty of a task by one and gives you the opportunity to spend a Willpower point. Up to your Avatar rating in quintessence can be spend instead of Willpower if you add Prime 2.


                              So, this Zen Master walks up to a hot dog stand and says: "Make me one with everything!"

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