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Why would anyone pick Chi Healing?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Bluecho View Post
    Not trying to be combative, I'm just a pedantic person:


    A Dreamspeaker without spirit could have just preferred to focus on medicine work. Not everyone from tribal or animistic cultures has to talk directly to spirits. Granted, many of them do so anyway, but that's a Focus issue, not a Sphere one.

    (Although I will admit, if they aren't going to go into Spirit at all, they might as well be an atypical Verbana.)


    And the primary factor determining a person's place in the Akashayana is adherence to Do, both as a martial art and a lifestyle. Even unAwakened people could, technically, train in Do. I suspect many Akashic acolytes have. There's also a strain of Eastern thought that maintains seeking power is a distraction from Enlightenment.


    Other than ethics, debate, and cost benefit analysis. People have been making judgement calls on people for millennia, without needing to read their fates with magic. Some folks are obviously too dangerous to be left alive, and show no signs of reforming. Some people are so sick or injured or broken that healing is a virtual impossibility, and a simple Medicine check could tell the person that. (Indeed, the Euthatanos might just need to check with the patient's doctor to see if they have any chance of improvement).


    I seem to recall 2nd Edition stating (and I know M20 confirmed it) that even unAwakened mortals are capable of accessing the Digital Web. So long as they have VR equipment, and the right knowledge. Equipment and knowledge that's more abundant now that they've ever been. A Virtual Adept doesn't need Correspondence to have a presence in the Digital Web.

    That's assuming a given Virtual Adept even cares about it. Some might prefer to focus on technologies and techniques around themselves, rather than at a distance. Some might prefer to hack their own bodies (or "source code&quot, or use cybernetics to effect a transhuman ideal.
    For the Akashic, it's more a case of how Do should create the balance between mind and body, and gaining a point in Mind comes as a result of this training. They become so in tune with their mind that they have complete control over it. An Acashic who cannot control their mind may be considered improperly trained.

    Same for the Euthanatos, they are not allowed to be considered proper members of the tradition until they exhibit complete understanding of the eight spokes wheel, and the nature of fate and chance and how it plays a role in the lives and deaths of humanity. This understanding can come in the form of Entropy 1

    As for the VA's. Yeah you don't need Corr to look at the Digital Web, but if you want to really be there, astral projection is the way. Sure anyone can look at a website on their phone, but that's not the real web. And yeah, anyone can buy a someVR gear and Have a poke around, but that isn't the same as actually plugging in and Matrixing it up. Sure, you might prefer to hack life or play with numbers, and then Entropy or Life would be more your bag, but if your like most VA, then Reality 2.0 is the next step to fight for, and full imersion is the only real way to do it.


    Keepers of the Wyck: A Chronicle I'm running UPDATE Chapter 31b: Removed

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    • #17
      Still, to have EVERY Hermetic with Forces... Just because "Hey, Wizards! ... Well... Fireball!" it's kinda silly

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Karlgust View Post
        Still, to have EVERY Hermetic with Forces... Just because "Hey, Wizards! ... Well... Fireball!" it's kinda silly

        Even 2e Gave them House specific Spheres.



        On topic I'd be more willing to give "Chi healing" some bonuses over Life 2(or life 3) like Chi healing allows you to heal others a with Prime 2 life 2 for the cost of quint. a rote that includes spirit that invokes spirits has more UMPH than just the base spheres. The character might be incapable of using the "base" rote but for that lack of versatility they gain a superior rote.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Lian View Post


          Even 2e Gave them House specific Spheres.



          On topic I'd be more willing to give "Chi healing" some bonuses over Life 2(or life 3) like Chi healing allows you to heal others a with Prime 2 life 2 for the cost of quint. a rote that includes spirit that invokes spirits has more UMPH than just the base spheres. The character might be incapable of using the "base" rote but for that lack of versatility they gain a superior rote.
          A "superior rote" that my etherite could also do with Prime or spirit, without needing to have those as Sphere taxes for his char concept.

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          • #20
            And no, I don't agree that putting more spheres into an effect can make it "better", that's not how it works for the mechanics, unless under specific situations of MULTIPLE effects (like using Prime to attune the ressonance of a target, making it easier to affect)

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Karlgust View Post

              A "superior rote" that my etherite could also do with Prime or spirit, without needing to have those as Sphere taxes for his char concept.
              If the Rote uses Prime 2, Life 2 then you've spend your "Xp tax". so I fail to see your point, if someone wants to do "SPirit healing": that's spirits 2, life 2 Damn it should do more than just Life 2 period. Maybe they as a character can't concieve of doing the life 2 only rote, so they never use it.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Lian View Post

                If the Rote uses Prime 2, Life 2 then you've spend your "Xp tax". so I fail to see your point, if someone wants to do "SPirit healing": that's spirits 2, life 2 Damn it should do more than just Life 2 period. Maybe they as a character can't concieve of doing the life 2 only rote, so they never use it.
                You can do a rote named "Spirit Healing", with Life 2, Spirit 2, but that WONT be self heal, because self healing is Life 2. What adds potency to an effect is the number of successes, not how many Spheres you stack on it. When you put more Spheres you give the effect an broader area of action. For example, an effect with Life, Matter and Forces will act on living patterns, on material patterns and on energical patterns. But that doesn't mean that it will make an effect that deals ONLY with Life, matter or forces, more effective by adding random spheres to it (that actually won't have no role whatesoever). Effectiveness, once again, is a matter of successes, not the complexity of the effect

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                • #23
                  Since Spirit 2 is Summoning... If you have some spiritual agreements, maybe you could summon your spirit allies to ask them to do the healing for you. The thing is the counter price for their services. So, in this particular case, it would be different because it's not you doing the magic, but an individual entity. However, either way, I would make the healing be according to the number of successes no matter what. Only that, you could do 2 healings in the same scene (instead of just one) with 2 separated effects, one with Life and the other with Spirit 2 (if you pay the price for the spirits help).

                  Do you wanna see HOW can you truly add spheres on a effect to add functionality to your effect WITHOUT adding potency to it?

                  Chi Restoration - Life 2 (3), Prime 2
                  This effect allows the Mage to heal aggravated damage as if it were lethal, without needing to spend his precious quintessence reserves (Life 2 to heal himself, 3 for others, and Prime 2 to use "ambient" ether)

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                  • #24
                    Honestly you are getting bogged down on specifics when I was just throwing out there If Rote X is Sphere X 2. and Rote Y is Sphere X 2 and SPhere Y 2 it should do something different than Rote X. That's all I am saying. I was just doing a quick spit balling "Fix" "SPirit Healing" would have you both use the Life 2 effect plus summon a spirit who likely would have an apporpriate healing charm. This would in all ways be more effective than Life 2 because you are including Life 2 plus the Spirit's charm.


                    CHi healing should have added capabilities over base healing even if the character doesn't concieve of "Life healing" in their paradigm.

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                    • #25
                      I've always wanted a book to help my players with coming up with rotes for effects. HDYDT seemed to confuse the matter. My personal reaction to HDYDT was to start making my own list of common rotes that each tradition would have that doesn't inflate the spheres you need for stuff but still has that bit of focus based thematic. I erred on the the other side of the spectrum allowing certain weird sphere combinations (but not spheres by themselves) to have somewhat powerful effects based on a tradition's magical philosophies, giving each tradition a few cheezy rotes that would be completely unexpected and probably hard to understand for mages of other traditions. Unfortunately I am on rote 71 of the akashic order and am only almost done with their use of the Mind, Life, & Spirit Spheres. I have no idea when this little project of mine will be over.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Spacecat View Post
                        I've always wanted a book to help my players with coming up with rotes for effects. HDYDT seemed to confuse the matter. My personal reaction to HDYDT was to start making my own list of common rotes that each tradition would have that doesn't inflate the spheres you need for stuff but still has that bit of focus based thematic. I erred on the the other side of the spectrum allowing certain weird sphere combinations (but not spheres by themselves) to have somewhat powerful effects based on a tradition's magical philosophies, giving each tradition a few cheezy rotes that would be completely unexpected and probably hard to understand for mages of other traditions. Unfortunately I am on rote 71 of the akashic order and am only almost done with their use of the Mind, Life, & Spirit Spheres. I have no idea when this little project of mine will be over.
                        Dang! That's quite an undertaking you've got there. Are you going to limit it to the Traditions, or are you going to include the Technocracy and the Crafts? If you're including the Crafts then outsource for your own sanity's sake.

                        Honestly, I think it's unnecessary to make a list of rotes for every tradition. The Revised Tradition Guides have a nice load of Tradition specific rotes which can give you a good idea as to what kind of rites each group has, and more than enough tools to allow for variations on the themes provided.

                        Also, I'd say the job of figuring out how certain effects can be done given the spheres and paradigm of the character should be the player's job. They need to think of a system that makes sense to their player, all the ST needs to do is make sure they aren't straying towards the Purple Paradigm, and enforce whatever internal logic they've place on themselves.


                        Keepers of the Wyck: A Chronicle I'm running UPDATE Chapter 31b: Removed

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Saikou View Post

                          Dang! That's quite an undertaking you've got there. Are you going to limit it to the Traditions, or are you going to include the Technocracy and the Crafts? If you're including the Crafts then outsource for your own sanity's sake.
                          It'll be the Traditions, Technocracy, and each of the other significant groups mentioned in M20...

                          Originally posted by Saikou View Post
                          Honestly, I think it's unnecessary to make a list of rotes for every tradition. The Revised Tradition Guides have a nice load of Tradition specific rotes which can give you a good idea as to what kind of rites each group has, and more than enough tools to allow for variations on the themes provided.
                          ...and while my time would be better spent on other matters, I'm somewhat obsessive compulsive about these sorts of things...

                          (I've built my own RPG system that works well enough that a small group of people love it and prefer it to most systems (I need to complete the art in the book before I sell it online), and I've made a Heian to Sengoku Era (with a bit of Edo) version of L5R complete with schools for (too many) clans, ninjas, monk, kannushi (shugenja), ashigaru, ronin, Christian missionaries, and a few others; and a completely new kiho and spell list.)

                          It's not an exhaustive list of rotes mind you. Just what I feel would be the more common stuff. My use of it will be so that when I throw an NPC mage into the game or someone steals a mage's spellbook, I can say, "This is what you find in there..."

                          Originally posted by Saikou View Post
                          Also, I'd say the job of figuring out how certain effects can be done given the spheres and paradigm of the character should be the player's job. They need to think of a system that makes sense to their player, all the ST needs to do is make sure they aren't straying towards the Purple Paradigm, and enforce whatever internal logic they've place on themselves.
                          ... and while I completely agree with you, I find myself making this thing anyway.

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