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  • Immortality

    One of the formulas listed as an example for the fourth level of Alchemy in Sorcerer: Revised is a potion of longevity. Success seems to produce a year's worth of the regime of drugs that slows the aging process to one month for every year that they take the regime of drugs (they age one month every day that they lose access to their drugs until they reach their true age). A character who started the regime at age 25 would be physically 50 when they reached the age of 325 (they would be physically 75 when they reached the age of 625 and physically 100 when they reached the age of 925). With that type of longevity available from the efforts of Sorcerers, why would any Mage bother with using True Magick to retard aging, especially since it causes Pattern Bleed and Permanent Paradox after the first century or so?

  • #2
    Because it does neither of those if you do it right. Aka using it as an excuse to grab the unaging merit.

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    • #3
      Does the Unaging Merit specifically say that Mages who possess it are immune to Pattern Bleed or Permanent Paradox caused by True Magick longevity treatments? If so, can you give a book and page number please?

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      • #4
        It just says "you don't age." And leaves it up to you to explain why.

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        • #5
          Then it does not provide immunity to Pattern Bleed or Permanent Paradox.

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          • #6
            I suspect it being a Merit means that, for whatever reason particular to the character's timelessness, it doesn't incur Paradox. If it did, the merit would have said so. This doesn't just apply to characters who achieved Unaging status by their own Art, but also those who achieved it through a wide variety of potential methods. Eating peaches of immortality, receiving a boon (or curse) from a higher (or lower) power, being injected with experimental nanomachines, a particularly potent Time-based Paradox backlash (or more probably a Scourge backlash, from the time when such things weren't always detrimental to the Mage), etc.

            Naturally, it would behoove a Storyteller to make the merit a burden in ways other than Paradox. People tend to pay attention (and react badly) to those who seem not to age over decades of time. Some of these people are specifically looking for (and align themselves against) those who display such unnatural traits. The Technocratic Union is only one such organization, though one of the most potent.


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            • #7
              Originally posted by Aya Tari View Post
              Then it does not provide immunity to Pattern Bleed or Permanent Paradox.
              It doesn't cause them either.

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              • #8
                No, considering how many editions of the Mage game existed before Revised, I think it would be hard to say that they forgot to mention immunity to Paradox or Pattern Bleed. Unaging is not created through True Magick, it is either from a higher power or from an accident that could not be replicated (I am unaware of any rote that gives characters Supernatural Merits). Replicating Unaging with True Magick would still cause Paradox and Pattern Bleed because you would only be using a Life or Time effect to stop aging (and you would suffer a difficulty modifier to all effect rolls because you would be maintaining an ongoing effect, even if you make it permanent it is still on ongoing effect). If you want permanent augmentations without a difficulty modifier, get a Device or a Talisman.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Aya Tari View Post
                  No, considering how many editions of the Mage game existed before Revised, I think it would be hard to say that they forgot to mention immunity to Paradox or Pattern Bleed. Unaging is not created through True Magick, it is either from a higher power or from an accident that could not be replicated (I am unaware of any rote that gives characters Supernatural Merits). Replicating Unaging with True Magick would still cause Paradox and Pattern Bleed because you would only be using a Life or Time effect to stop aging (and you would suffer a difficulty modifier to all effect rolls because you would be maintaining an ongoing effect, even if you make it permanent it is still on ongoing effect). If you want permanent augmentations without a difficulty modifier, get a Device or a Talisman.
                  No, you don't maintain it if it has a duration for one. That's like saying you're pushing a car when it has an engine that pushes the car and you along with it.

                  For two, it doesn't mention that because it takes a very convoluted reading of the merit to try and say that you should have permanent paradox and pattern bleeding because of it.

                  For three, Life Five, Perfect Metamorphosis. You do whatever you feel like with your pattern and laugh off pattern bleeding because you decide what your pattern is.

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                  • #10
                    Ongoing effects give difficulty penalties (Mage: Revised, p. 155-156). If you have a specific book and page number that states that duration negates the ongoing effects penalty, please feel free to share. Otherwise, the only way I know to avoid ongoing effects modifiers is by making Devices or Talismans.
                    Last edited by Aya Tari; 02-08-2017, 11:59 PM.

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                    • #11
                      Use Alchemy 6, you can become a Revenant and Quarter the rate again forever.

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                      • #12
                        Probably for a few reasons.
                        -Requires a strong mastery of Alchemy, which, when you already have a real form of enlightenment, probably seems unimportant in comparison.
                        -Still presents risks as far as not having your potion when you need it.
                        -Could die outright for a botch preparing it.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Monalfie View Post
                          Probably for a few reasons.
                          -Requires a strong mastery of Alchemy, which, when you already have a real form of enlightenment, probably seems unimportant in comparison.
                          -Still presents risks as far as not having your potion when you need it.
                          -Could die outright for a botch preparing it.
                          Plus the ST doesn't have to let Mages have Sorcery. I'm sure there are plenty of Mages (even Archmages) who wish they could whip up a Storm or conjure fire without paradox (ESPECIALLY since they could follow up with some paradox-free Magick, for example manipulating an existing fire is far less vulgar then creating one out of nowhere and is easier to pass as consensual), but they can't. The Avatar won't play ball, it's woken up and it won't let you play around with Reality when you could be rewriting Reality.

                          Well... sort of? 1 EXP lowers the difficulty by 1 forever. After that, you just spend Mana each time you do it. Recovering Mana can be as simple as waiting, meditating or having sex. And most Sorcerer PCs will have Mana. The likelihood of you botching a difficulty 5 roll is quite low, especially if you spend Willpower on it (it's only once a month) and learn the skills related to "casting" it up to their highest level.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by 11twiggins View Post
                            Use Alchemy 6, you can become a Revenant and Quarter the rate again forever.
                            Interesting idea, though you could potentially become practically anything with Alchemy 6 (except for a Changeling, Demon, or Wraith).

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Monalfie
                              Probably for a few reasons.
                              -Still presents risks as far as not having your potion when you need it.
                              -Could die outright for a botch preparing it.
                              I have problams with this:
                              -Requires a strong mastery of Alchemy, which, when you already have a real form of enlightenment, probably seems unimportant in comparison.
                              Hubris it's always good, but it shouldn't be excuse for stupidity or lack of knowledge. When you go so far as to become vampire or make a deal with the devil for immortailty, the rumor that some static mages live really long lives should have reached the ears of at least a few archmasters, and they shouldn't be above of manipulating them to get the potion.

                              -Could die outright for a botch preparing it.
                              High Ritual magick to make you immortal can be quite deadly too.

                              -Still presents risks as far as not having your potion when you need it.
                              This, however, it's more like it. But it's a bit silly to exile yourself from Earth because a fear off forgetting the longevity potion. Just use Mind to ensure you don't forget it. Now, if you were going to leave Earth anyway...

                              I think that Sorcerer: Revised disregards some of the most basic assumptions of Mage. It shouldn't be so easy to get longevity, becasue longevity was a forbbiden fruit in Mage from the day 1. It was that, more than anything else, what forced Master into the Umbra (as Realms avoid the gain of Permadox until you get back to Earth, Pattern Bleeding wasn't a thing back then, but I would assume that Realms would counter that too, to keep the story intact). It was the reason why Tremere turned vampire. If a static mage can grant you that, or something close to that, immortality looses it's "forbbiden fruit" appeal (and mages seem like morons for not using that solution). A similar thing happens with Ghouldoom without extra consequences, but being a blood adict with awfull resonance it's a better reason not to search this kind of immortality than thinking that "static magick it's unimportant, if isn't dynamic, I don't do it". Now, if there were consequences from taking the static solution, like being filled with statism, and loosing some hability with dynamic magick, then it would make more sense
                              Last edited by Aleph; 02-09-2017, 09:38 AM.

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