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  • Any official word on The Computer and Null Threat connection?

    Mainly that..also..if someone kills The Computer, would technically all the computers on earth "Die"? or they have no direct connection?


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  • #2
    Originally posted by Crowley View Post
    Mainly that..also..if someone kills The Computer, would technically all the computers on earth "Die"? or they have no direct connection?

    No Autchthon falls unto the underworld dragging down all forms of tools.

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    • #3
      Err what? The Computer is just a weaver spirit inhabiting a horrid amalgamation of different types of computer tech. Autocthonia is the corpse of a fallen craftsman god. It's not like the ending of Return of the King.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Enginseer-42 View Post
        Err what? The Computer is just a weaver spirit inhabiting a horrid amalgamation of different types of computer tech. Autocthonia is the corpse of a fallen craftsman god. It's not like the ending of Return of the King.

        The Computer is Autocthon.


        There's also "The Machine" in werewolf, which is different.

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        • #5
          Autocthonia is specifically named as the shell of a dormant 'Tool God' in Convention Book: IterationX. It's less specific on what the Computer is, AFAIK, but from how I've read source material in different splats, the Computer is an Weaver spirit independent of Autocthonia.


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          • #6
            Originally posted by Arzie View Post
            Autocthonia is specifically named as the shell of a dormant 'Tool God' in Convention Book: IterationX. It's less specific on what the Computer is, AFAIK, but from how I've read source material in different splats, the Computer is an Weaver spirit independent of Autocthonia.

            No, its a spirit independent of the Weaver. That's why I say "its Autocthon" since its short hand for "alien machine spirit"


            Originally posted by IX revised
            The spirit inhabiting the Computer has lived in
            Autocthonia for many aeons. It was there long before the
            Earth attained its modern form. It was cut off from the rest
            of the universe during an ancient cataclysm, and lived
            happily within its own bounded domain for a vast number
            of millennia. Originally, both human and mechanical
            slaves served its every need. However, another ancient
            disaster killed all of its living servants and destroyed the
            vast majority of its constructs. For tens of thousands of
            years, this spirit dwelled alone and helpless, until the
            arrival of the Artificers.
            Last edited by Lian; 02-20-2017, 12:09 AM.

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            • #7
              Welcome to Crossoverland...

              To answer the questions without discussing if the implications of Exalted/Werewolf lore in Mage (and Autochton was named after Autochtonia, not the other way arround, Autochtonia it's here from Mage 1st edition):

              Originally posted by Crowley
              Any word on the Computer and Treath Null connection
              No, there isn't, it's left up in the air. However, the ciber-humans of Treath Null seem compatible with the Computer version of how humanity should be, so it makes sense to think that it's still in charge
              Originally posted by Crowley
              if someone kills The Computer, would technically all the computers on earth "Die"? or they have no direct connection?
              No, it's never stated anywhere that the Computer it's connected in any way to earthly computers, moreso, the Computer was trying to download itself to the Digital Web in order to conquer Earth by taking control of all computers an technology, implying that The Computer doesn't control computers already, but has instead a small pressence in the web.
              Last edited by Aleph; 02-20-2017, 12:22 PM.

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              • #8
                Considering how the Difference Engineers/Virtual Adepts are inextricably linked with the rise of computers, it would be strange for an ItX machine to be sine qua non.


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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Aleph View Post
                  Welcome to Crossoverland...

                  To answer the questions without discussing if the implications of Exalted/Werewolf lore in Mage (and Autochton was named after Autochtonia, not the other way arround, Autochtonia it's here from Mage 1st edition):
                  .

                  All Exalted Lore Potential connection to CWOD come after since Exalted always came later. I merely point out Autocthonia and the Computer have always been treated more as Cybertron that the IX found and started loving and very much in a place where what is Umbral and not is.. complex to say the least. Autocthonia as Autochthon does seem to match up most of the major points on both games(though Autocthon is much "nicer"). So if you want something big to happen when the Computer dies.. well.

                  I don;'t think the Computer as presented is a Weaver Spirit proper, though he would "Smell of the weaver" just like all Nephandi Smell "Of the wyrm" but there are broadly 3 types of Nephandic masters Infernalists, Wyrm cultists, and Outsiders. The Wyrm cultists are treated as particularly different from the other types so from a Mage perspective I'd honestly treat the Triat as a quality of the Middle Umbra since its much harder to start place High Umbral entities into triat categories.

                  But even assuming werewolf uber alles as the Computer seems to be a spirit of Whole Counter Earth Cybertron it would seem to put him as a Peer to Celestines which generally tend to be treated as siblings/lovers to Gaia(thus wrapping back around to the Autocthon from Exalted) and generally aren't placed in such categories as weaver,wyld, wyrm..

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Lian
                    All Exalted Lore Potential connection to CWOD come after since Exalted always came later. I merely point out Autocthonia and the Computer have always been treated more as Cybertron that the IX found and started loving and very much in a place where what is Umbral and not is.. complex to say the least. Autocthonia as Autochthon does seem to match up most of the major points on both games(though Autocthon is much "nicer"). So if you want something big to happen when the Computer dies.. well.

                    I don;'t think the Computer as presented is a Weaver Spirit proper, though he would "Smell of the weaver" just like all Nephandi Smell "Of the wyrm" but there are broadly 3 types of Nephandic masters Infernalists, Wyrm cultists, and Outsiders. The Wyrm cultists are treated as particularly different from the other types so from a Mage perspective I'd honestly treat the Triat as a quality of the Middle Umbra since its much harder to start place High Umbral entities into triat categories.
                    The Computer comanded Autochtonia and it's swarms of Pattern Spiders and Geomids in 1º edition. It totally was a Weaver spirit. Then WW guys decided to create Exalted as the past of MdT (the 2º Era, isn't it?). Then Demon was created and WW stated that Exalted was no longer the canon past of WoD, and that's why they have their own forum.

                    ItX Convention Book was created to give the impression that the Computer it's or it's related to Autochton.

                    This it's exactly the kind of issues I was talking in the thread of Many WoDs vs single Wod. You take your favored canon, and think it's the real way things are, but, in truth, there's not a single, unified, true story.

                    But even assuming werewolf uber alles as the Computer seems to be a spirit of Whole Counter Earth Cybertron it would seem to put him as a Peer to Celestines which generally tend to be treated as siblings/lovers to Gaia(thus wrapping back around to the Autocthon from Exalted) and generally aren't placed in such categories as weaver,wyld, wyrm.
                    If the Computer it's a "counterearth", then it should be a Planetary Incarna, as the Earth it's. In the Book of Worlds Autochtonia it's the Shenti of Statism (much like Malfeas it's the Shenti of Entropy), the Computer could be similar to Number Two in status, or could be a Weaver aligned Celestine. It would be incredibly weird to treat Autochtonia as the Static Malfeas and make it unrelated to the Weaver. Then again, if you swear by ItX revised...
                    Last edited by Aleph; 02-20-2017, 04:26 PM.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Aleph View Post

                      The Computer comanded Autochtonia and it's swarms of Pattern Spiders and Geomids in 1º edition. It totally was a Weaver spirit.
                      In first edition the Technocracy commanded Paradox Spirits. In 1e The Technocracy was Functionally "Weaver Nephandi" and Marauders were "Wyld Nephandi". There's a clear drift from "EVERYONE is on team X" in 2e going forward.

                      2e and Further Revised push a solid difference between High and Middle Umbra.

                      Yama Kings command banes are are explicitly NOT of the Wyrm/Centipede(though they are entropic!) they represent a different manifestation than the Primal corrupter thus their deals with shapeshifters don't allow them the options the Wyrm does.

                      Then WW guys decided to create Exalted as the past of MdT (the 2º Era, isn't it?). Then Demon was created and WW stated that Exalted was no longer the canon past of WoD, and that's why they have their own forum.

                      ItX Convention Book was created to give the impression that the Computer it's or it's related to Autochton.

                      This it's exactly the kind of issues I was talking in the thread of Many WoDs vs single Wod. You take your favored canon, and think it's the real way things are, but, in truth, there's not a single, unified, true story.
                      All sorts of things have been decannonized since the start. Ars Magica used to be the Past for example. Now its not. Mages could undo the Curse of Caine with Impunity.. now its a great act of Paradox. There's also meant to be confusion and chaos and distortion because truth is hard to come by.

                      But generally games have a certain level of self containment. You don't have would be major antagonists being completely created by another gameline and having no reference whatsoever in the main one. Autochthonia has no mention in the book of the Weaver. The Computer has no mention in it. Its goals to take over the Digital web(a place generally unmentioned in the book of the weaver) place it solidly as mage thing.

                      So you have this super powered weaver like thing... with complete and utter autonomy doing whatever it wants... So how does this work with the One Song?


                      If the Computer it's a "counterearth", then it should be a Planetary Incarna, as the Earth it's. In the Book of Worlds Autochtonia it's the Shenti of Statism (much like Malfeas it's the Shenti of Entropy), the Computer could be similar to Number Two in status, or could be a Weaver aligned Celestine. It would be incredibly weird to treat Autochtonia as the Static Malfeas and make it unrelated to the Weaver. Then again, if you swear by ItX revised...
                      Its very much ICLY called the SHenti of Patttern by someone who doesn't seem to understand the concept entirely though it at least is in the deep universe so could potentially count. Malfeas is Not the Shenti of Entropy its a reflection in the new umbra. SHenti are theoretical existances in the Deep Universe.

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                      • #12
                        In first edition the Technocracy commanded Paradox Spirits. In 1e The Technocracy was Functionally "Weaver Nephandi" and Marauders were "Wyld Nephandi". There's a clear drift from "EVERYONE is on team X" in 2e going forward.

                        2e and Further Revised push a solid difference between High and Middle Umbra.

                        Yama Kings command banes are are explicitly NOT of the Wyrm/Centipede(though they are entropic!) they represent a different manifestation than the Primal corrupter thus their deals with shapeshifters don't allow them the options the Wyrm does.
                        And then:

                        All sorts of things have been decannonized since the start. Ars Magica used to be the Past for example. Now its not. Mages could undo the Curse of Caine with Impunity.. now its a great act of Paradox. There's also meant to be confusion and chaos and distortion because truth is hard to come by.

                        But generally games have a certain level of self containment. You don't have would be major antagonists being completely created by another gameline and having no reference whatsoever in the main one. Autochthonia has no mention in the book of the Weaver. The Computer has no mention in it. Its goals to take over the Digital web(a place generally unmentioned in the book of the weaver) place it solidly as mage thing.
                        See what you're doing. First I'm "wrong" because 1º edition it's not canon anymore, but when you try to put the Computer as a god of another gameline that isn't even part of the WoD anymore you trivialize the issue, changing the focus to determine if the OTHER game has or hasn't references to the being.


                        So you have this super powered weaver like thing... with complete and utter autonomy doing whatever it wants... So how does this work with the One Song?
                        Easier than you think...look:
                        1º What book implies that the Computer has complete and utter autonomy doing whatever it wants? "What it wants" it's very much in line to what the Weaver wants, organic life it's unpredictable and frail, lets turn it into machines!, who can say if isn't in it's weaverish nature to want this? . It's not hard to make these things work together, because they did during a good part of the metaplot. The conection exists, it's not canon anymore, but if you're going to introduce full crossover, it's as valid as any other.

                        2º Whole chapters have been written showing Autochtonia as "weaverish", but because Editions changed and a late book decided to separate the gamelines, and there's a sidebar in revised that leaves the door open for Computer to be something from Exalted (and Exalted insinuates that this it's the case), you have decided that this it's the new canon.

                        But WAIT, Exalted isn't canon anymore, does that in no way undermines you posture? If not, then it shouldn't bother you that someone chooses to follow 1º

                        3º If Autochtonia it's alingned with the Weaver and part of the One Song, or if it's a god from Exalted, isn't even an issue until you enter in Crossoverland. And when you do, you can go either way, there's plenty of deprecated stuff pointing one way or another.

                        4º Outside of Crossoverland, what we know about the Computer in current Mage it's that it's a poweful spirit of a realm of Pattern that has existed eons and wants to enter earth and turn all organic life into machines. We also know that the ItX brand of Treath Null it's turning organic life into machines.

                        Since it isn't stated that it's a "weaver spirit" in the current lore, it's very possible that the spirit it's not aligned to the Weaver.

                        I agree with you in that aspect.


                        In Mage, most spirits outside of the Middle Umbra aren't triatic, the Computer could easily be an unaligned God. But the idea that it's somehow aligned with the Weaver it's far from preposterous, if you even use the Weaver in Mage (a spirit of a Pattern realm aligned with what mages suppose that it's the spiritual representation of the concept of Statism, what a shock!).

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                        • #13
                          Read My Damned Posts

                          Originally posted by Lian View Post


                          No, its a spirit independent of the Weaver. That's why I say "its Autocthon" since its short hand for "alien machine spirit"




                          Originally posted by Lian View Post


                          All Exalted Lore Potential connection to CWOD come after since Exalted always came later. I merely point out Autocthonia and the Computer have always been treated more as Cybertron that the IX found and started loving and very much in a place where what is Umbral and not is.. complex to say the least. Autocthonia as Autochthon does seem to match up most of the major points on both games(though Autocthon is much "nicer"). So if you want something big to happen when the Computer dies.. well.

                          I don;'t think the Computer as presented is a Weaver Spirit proper, though he would "Smell of the weaver" just like all Nephandi Smell "Of the wyrm" but there are broadly 3 types of Nephandic masters Infernalists, Wyrm cultists, and Outsiders. The Wyrm cultists are treated as particularly different from the other types so from a Mage perspective I'd honestly treat the Triat as a quality of the Middle Umbra since its much harder to start place High Umbral entities into triat categories.

                          ..


                          You keep going on and on about whether Exalted is canon. I haven't said it was since.....maybe the first post? Now i wasn't exactly clear on that and being a bit snarky(because the idea that If the computer died all computers die came off as really silly to me.)

                          So lets start again, even in Werewolf Everything that "Smells of the wyrm" is not "Wyrmy" this is especially true in Mage where service to the Wyrm is a subset of Nephandic interaction vs the Grand Overall KIng of Evil. By this same token there should be things of Pattern that aren't of the Weaver as the Weaver is a "primal" representation of this vs its reflection on other points. Computer Clearly is a Creature of Pattern, but shows no qualities of the Weaver except command of certain spirits. There is no One Song. Even teh Crazy Machine cult Upgrades do not turn them into Drones. It doesn't interact with other Weaver entities.

                          Narratively if it were Meant to be super important to the Weaver... it would come up in the Weaver book. So apparently there's this super powerful Incarna/Celestine of the Weaver it made for no damned reason what so ever that isn't working with any of its other groups at all... or there's something unrelated that works doing Pattern Stuff.


                          Now we actually have a fully developed write up of Autocthon in Exalted and it looks similar to Mage because its based on Mage. The IX write up came first then Exalted took from it. There are also vast changes between the two. That doesn't mean the Computer is anything less than what IX says.. a Machine god who survived the birth of this Universe. Who was once served by humans and machines and now wants to upgrade them all. Mage is filled with all sorts of crazy shit. Now me I short hand "Ancient Machine God" to Autocthon because its easy like "Earth Mother to Gaia" just like I don't think Werewolf Gaia is Exalted Gaia. or Gaia from Captain Planet.

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