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  • #16
    The best way to make people lose respect for something is by selling it. The moment you turn something into a commodity is the moment you take away what's special about it. By selling the paradigms and methodology of the traditions and crafts to the masses in the form of fiction, fashion, fads, and new age crap you're teaching the masses that in the end, they're nothing more that another product to enjoy and throw away, with no inherent value or power. Plus, it gives the syndicate lots of money and the ability to keep an eye on the people that are interested in those sort of things. It's a genius move when you think about it. For me, the syndicate is by far the one that is doing the most damage to the traditions on the long term. They have effectively turned their enemies identities into a source of income. Tell me that is not impressive.

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    • #17
      My reading of the book is that the Syndicate are frankly arrogant idiots. The Syndicate might think it works but who knows?

      Primarily, the Syndicate fight the Tradtions by controlling the architecture of the world economy and forcing people to conform to those structures not publishing Harry Potter. I would say it's similiar to the Pogrom, it's something the Technocrats might think is of critical importance but in reality it's just a sideshow.


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      • #18
        Originally posted by Michael View Post
        My reading of the book is that the Syndicate are frankly arrogant idiots.
        Arrogant? Most definitely yes. But idiots? Certainly not. They know exactly what they are doing, and they are very good at it.


        Keepers of the Wyck: A Chronicle I'm running FINALE: Chapter 39: Green Fairy

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Saikou View Post

          Arrogant? Most definitely yes. But idiots? Certainly not. They know exactly what they are doing, and they are very good at it.
          I don't think they do. Their entire strategy amounts to saying 'I meant to do that' or shifting blame to someone else.

          Further, in the background, I don't think they're taking the NWO seriously. They think they can just bluster their way past a civil war.


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          • #20
            Originally posted by Michael View Post

            I don't think they do. Their entire strategy amounts to saying 'I meant to do that' or shifting blame to someone else.

            Further, in the background, I don't think they're taking the NWO seriously. They think they can just bluster their way past a civil war.
            They wouldn't be on top of the capitalist tower if they didn't know what they were doing. Also, while NWO may call the shots, it's the Syndicates financiers who have the final say on what does and doesn't get funded.
            The fact is that the NWO need them because without the Syndicate, everything slows down, but the Syndicate need NWO because their intel is second to none, and whether they like it or not, they are the ones who provide that much needed stability for a healthy economy to function.

            The other conventions may belittle the Syndicate as glorified accountants at best and grubby loan sharks with mafia style grunts at worst, but they play a shrewd game, letting their stereotypes precede them, taking full advantage of what their colleagues think to further their own agenda.

            Let's not forget they also own the world's press, they can tell the public exactly what they need them to think. From Fox News to The Huffington Post, they can keep the masses fighting amongst themselves with conflicted information while the NWO manages things behind the scenes.
            Last edited by Saikou; 02-19-2017, 03:44 PM.


            Keepers of the Wyck: A Chronicle I'm running FINALE: Chapter 39: Green Fairy

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Bluecho View Post
              The Awakening might not be teachable, but Magic is. Sorcery is a thing that exists in the World of Darkness, and anyone can learn it, provided they have the right teachers or texts. Some of those Sorcerers go on to Awaken.

              My point is that the Technocracy wants the public not to imagine that this is possible. That there must be a Gift of some kind behind magic, and "normal people" don't have it. They just have to be content with escapist fantasy, starring other people who have that gift.
              The Awakening is actually teachable.

              Primers are a thing. If someone has an avatar, studying a primer WILL awaken them.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Enginseer-42 View Post

                The Awakening is actually teachable.

                Primers are a thing. If someone has an avatar, studying a primer WILL awaken them.
                Was about to put this in.

                Is it just me, or are Grimoires OP? Like 5 freebies in Character Generation, and you're at -5 EXP cost to all of your advancements in a certain Sphere? So say you start with Arete 3, 1 dot in 6 Spheres and a level 5 Grimoire for your favourite Sphere. That will save you 20 EXP in total, which is enough to raise two other Spheres to level 2. Plus you can use the book to help others (possibly for a price). Then again Mentors are a thing and if you use the system for Instruction which has popped up every once in a while you can save a TONNE of EXP.

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                • #23
                  Yeah, but to get a good one, it's what, 5 dots in device/artifact?

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Enginseer-42 View Post
                    Yeah, but to get a good one, it's what, 5 dots in device/artifact?
                    That's only 5 freebies though right? ... then again, 5 freebies can be worth much more than 20 EXP if applied properly. I guess a Level 5 Forces Grimoire for a Hermetic would be a huge boon, and would probably act as a Primer for those with Avatars and Hermetic leanings. Then again, it would probably get stolen since it's priceless to almost every Hermetic out there.

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                    • #25
                      You can't mass print grimoire or even sorcerer books. They are highly specialized and not just a matter of simple learning, and only certain people have the aptitude. Not everyone will awaken from a Grimoire, Primers only make things more likely and not everyone can just pick up a book of sorcery and learn. Conversely the "aptitude" of sorcery can apparently be pushed via means other than just learning as shown by the NWO book.

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                      • #26
                        First, thank you Enginseer-42 for reminding me about Primers. I had forgotten. So yes, even the Awakening is teachable, so long as you have the right knowledge. If Sleepers never go looking for that knowledge - because they can't conceive that such mind-expanding lore could exist - they'll be forced to abandon thoughts of magic.

                        Originally posted by Michael View Post

                        I don't think they do. Their entire strategy amounts to saying 'I meant to do that' or shifting blame to someone else.

                        Further, in the background, I don't think they're taking the NWO seriously. They think they can just bluster their way past a civil war.
                        The Syndicate isn't stupid. They know the dangers behind encouraging fantasy among the masses. They can't NOT see the dangers, it's obvious. They probably met a lot of stiff resistance from the other Conventions when they proposed the plan.

                        That said, the Syndicate is also pragmatic. It's their defining feature, in comparison to their allies. They realize that the Technocratic ideal of a world without even a hint of magic in the popular consciousness is a pipe dream. Excising all references to mysticism or faith is never going to happen. To think otherwise is to book a flight straight to Cloud Cuckoo Land. The Technocracy only managed to do it in Sleepytown, [STATE REDACTED], because that was one planned community that the Union has on lockdown (see the Revised Storyteller's Handbook).

                        So, understanding this, the Syndicate took a calculated risk. Are they perhaps underestimating the number of folks who might seriously pursue mysticism if it appears in mass media? Probably. But such risks are not unexpected, and thus not beyond a measure of control (if I may paraphrase The Architect). They decide which media artifacts get funded and which get shafted. They decide which get proper advertisement, and which are rendered obscure. They are in a position to influence the final product, sneaking in ideas that undermine the mystic world view or influence how audiences internalize the narratives. They guide the exploitation of mystic paraphanalia, and track their sales. And at the end of the day, they pocket huge profits that feed into the Union's machine.

                        And if some Sleepers are inspired to Awakening despite the Syndicate's efforts, that's okay. They were probably going to Awaken anyway. Moreover, another person with Enlightenment is another person potentially won over to the Union's side, eventually.


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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Michael View Post
                          My reading of the book is that the Syndicate are frankly arrogant idiots. The Syndicate might think it works but who knows?

                          Primarily, the Syndicate fight the Tradtions by controlling the architecture of the world economy and forcing people to conform to those structures not publishing Harry Potter. I would say it's similiar to the Pogrom, it's something the Technocrats might think is of critical importance but in reality it's just a sideshow.
                          Oh, they have some trillions of reasons ($$$) for being arrogants... The Syndicated is so ridiculously powerful that the Traditions are no more than a nuisance for them... Hell, they barely care about them, which is why they've turned their attentions towards "more pressing matters".

                          Now, about being idiots... Yeah, you do underestimate the most powerful guys in the world, they me how does that works out for ya

                          And the Pogrom, the real use of the Pogrom is as propaganda, more than of actual "cleaning program". After brutalizing a half dozen of Deviants, the remaining others will be sure to keep their heads down, because they are too afraid. I think that, should the Traditions have the balls to face the Union heads up, madly charging in a blaze of glory, they would have a much better chance than in this slow attrition war. But, the Pogrom has convinced the Traditions just how scary and powerful the grey faces in black suits are to even try... I say, the Pogrom is also a genius move

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Bluecho View Post
                            First, thank you Enginseer-42 for reminding me about Primers. I had forgotten. So yes, even the Awakening is teachable, so long as you have the right knowledge. If Sleepers never go looking for that knowledge - because they can't conceive that such mind-expanding lore could exist - they'll be forced to abandon thoughts of magic.


                            The Syndicate isn't stupid. They know the dangers behind encouraging fantasy among the masses. They can't NOT see the dangers, it's obvious. They probably met a lot of stiff resistance from the other Conventions when they proposed the plan.

                            That said, the Syndicate is also pragmatic. It's their defining feature, in comparison to their allies. They realize that the Technocratic ideal of a world without even a hint of magic in the popular consciousness is a pipe dream. Excising all references to mysticism or faith is never going to happen. To think otherwise is to book a flight straight to Cloud Cuckoo Land. The Technocracy only managed to do it in Sleepytown, [STATE REDACTED], because that was one planned community that the Union has on lockdown (see the Revised Storyteller's Handbook).

                            So, understanding this, the Syndicate took a calculated risk. Are they perhaps underestimating the number of folks who might seriously pursue mysticism if it appears in mass media? Probably. But such risks are not unexpected, and thus not beyond a measure of control (if I may paraphrase The Architect). They decide which media artifacts get funded and which get shafted. They decide which get proper advertisement, and which are rendered obscure. They are in a position to influence the final product, sneaking in ideas that undermine the mystic world view or influence how audiences internalize the narratives. They guide the exploitation of mystic paraphanalia, and track their sales. And at the end of the day, they pocket huge profits that feed into the Union's machine.

                            And if some Sleepers are inspired to Awakening despite the Syndicate's efforts, that's okay. They were probably going to Awaken anyway. Moreover, another person with Enlightenment is another person potentially won over to the Union's side, eventually.
                            And it's not just that. When you mix truth and lie, you make truth dubious. For example, there is no Paradigm like "The Force" of StarWars. The Akashics don't usually keep fighting kung fu while flying/gliding around (not ALWAYS anyway).

                            It's not just that; in psychology, the way that we deal with our fears, is to live them in a controlled enviroment. That's why we watch horror movies for example - it's a way to experience fear, and therefore be able do deal with it - in a controlled enviroment (without the necessity of having to deal with that while trying to escape from a psychopatic assassing chasing you or while fleeing from a grizly bear). So, experiencing those fantasies is a way of dealing with them in a way that will generate less momentum... Yes, you'll keep imagining things about Freddy Krueger for a while, but at the same time, you just confined that idea to the land of "safe imagination", instead of letting it acquire mad proportions based on histeric fear.

                            A history of a demonic person that hunts people in their dreams would probably summon a terrible bygone or nightmare chimera if told to a bunch of medieval men, but when showed on a movie theater, it makes people laugh and rest easy, reassured that their fears are far away in the fanatasy, not in the real world

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