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High umbra and mind sphere

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  • High umbra and mind sphere

    Some have said mind 4 or so is needed to travel to the High Umbra (astral projection), some have said spirit 3 is enough. Which one is correct? I remember M20 saying something about mind sphere being needed, too.

  • #2
    Spirit can bring you to the lower parts of the High Umbra. But Spirit alone can not bring you to the highest reaches.

    So, this Zen Master walks up to a hot dog stand and says: "Make me one with everything!"


    • #3
      It's not one or the other, or both together--it's either. Two different ways to get there. But Mind can only get you to the High Umbra and possibly Penumbra. You need Spirit to get to the Middle Umbra or the Deep Umbra, and I believe both Spirit and Entropy to get to the Low Umbra. Even in the High Umbra you can do more with Spirit, because you bring your body with you.


      • #4
        You can use either to get to the High Umbra - Mind for astral projection and Spirit for bodily visitation - although if I recall correctly, you can't get beyond a certain point in the High Umbra using Spirit. You have to Mind your way to the upper reaches of it, because the farther (or higher) you go, the more the realm becomes a place of pure thought. Or something like that. The Infinite Tapestry goes into the matter a fair bit.


        • #5
          The question would be if you actually can travel to the lower parts of the High Umbra by using Spirit 3 to sidestep, and then use Mind + Spirit to transform your body into mind essence to travel further.
          Or alternatively, literally do Mind 4 Astral Projection from within the High Umbra, leaving your Epephremal body behind.

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          • #6
            According to Infinite Tapestry. Mind 4 will let you travel to the High Umbra, the astral Realm, exclusively. In this form you will be able to "think" your way around, and essentially have astral flight. You start in the vulgate, the lowest levels, and can climb the spires simply by floating up them. You are constantly being drawn up towards the epiphamies, but can only really make it there through a show of mental ability.

            Spirit 3 will take you to the penumbra, from which you'll need to find the astral realm by yourself. The vulgate will be more solid and physical to you, and you'll have a harder time navigating it general. However, you can still physically climb the spires to reach the epiphamies. It's just a much bigger job, needing physical metaphors which compliment the mental challenges.
            Physically flying is more hazardous as the higher you go in the Astral Realm, the more conceptual physical things become. So if you give yourself prehensile wings, and use those wings for flight, they will be conceptually locked in as wings and lose any other properties such as being able to shield you, hold things, or even attack. They are just things that help you fly. It's possible to change their property by thinking hard on how you intend to use them, but then they wouldn't be able to fly anymore.

            The best of both worlds approach has got to be the Astral Sojourn, which combines Mind, Spirit, and Prime to Astral projection with a Body of Light to allow you to Astral Proeject to anywhere in the umbra as though you had stepped sideways, but you use Astral projection rules for travel, and can take on any form you want "though the default is an idealised naked version of you".

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