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Do sorcerers still exist in the WoD?

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  • Do sorcerers still exist in the WoD?

    M20 states that there are no longer any sorcerers among the Traditions, the Technocracy or the Disparate Alliance; all members (other than mortal acolytes) are Awakened mages. But what about the sorcerer groups found in Sorcerer Revised? The Maison Liban clearly have to go, since their whole shtick is that they are descended from sorcerers affiliated with House Tremere during the Dark Ages, but what about the other groups?


    Our society is held together by the thinnest of threads: that exquisitely refined sense of tribal order.
    Edith Wharton, The Age of Innocence

    I am a huge fan of both the Trinity Universe and the classic World of Darkness.

  • #2
    Originally posted by Spellfire22 View Post
    M20 states that there are no longer any sorcerers among the Traditions, the Technocracy or the Disparate Alliance; all members (other than mortal acolytes) are Awakened mages. But what about the sorcerer groups found in Sorcerer Revised? The Maison Liban clearly have to go, since their whole shtick is that they are descended from sorcerers affiliated with House Tremere during the Dark Ages, but what about the other groups?
    Where does it say this?


    Keepers of the Wyck: A Chronicle I'm running UPDATE Chapter 26: Towers of Glass

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    • #3
      Hi Spellfire 22.

      M20 says this:

      According to the Revised edition of World of Darkness: Sorcerer, the Traditions now have unAwakened hedge magicians as well as Awakened mages among their ranks. Given the complexities and complications involved in hedge magic game systems, however, that merger has been ignored in Mage 20. If your individual troupe wants to feature sorcerers among the mages, go for it. The following chapters and rules do not address that subject – there’s simply not enough room here to do justice to the idea.

      This doesn't mean a retcon. It simply means M20 does not cover the topic whatsoever.

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      • #4
        To be a bit clearer with regards to this: You can run M20 by itself without any reference to outside material or hedge magicians among the Traditions. But, if you are going to use Sorcerers in the setting, M20 doesn't specifically state anything about them and how you are to use them.

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        • #5
          Thanks, Spacecat! That definitely clarifies things.


          Our society is held together by the thinnest of threads: that exquisitely refined sense of tribal order.
          Edith Wharton, The Age of Innocence

          I am a huge fan of both the Trinity Universe and the classic World of Darkness.

          Comment


          • #6
            There are Numina/Hedge magic paths in Hunters Hunted II for V20 and I'll have some in the upcoming World of Darkness: Ghost Hunters book as well.

            Ghost Hunters is going to be useable across any/all of the *20 game lines (much like WoD: Mafia, WoD: Sorcerer were back in the previous editions).

            -MMM


            Director of Publishing - DriveThruRPG, DriveThruComics & DriveThruFiction
            Owner/Editor - FlamesRising.com

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Matt-M-McElroy View Post
              Ghost Hunters is going to be useable across any/all of the *20 game lines (much like WoD: Mafia, WoD: Sorcerer were back in the previous editions).
              I'm crazy excited about this one! I always loved the black cover World of Darkness books back in the day


              Charlie Cantrell
              Onyx Path Freelancer
              Changeling: The Dreaming 20th Anniversary Edition, Night Horrors: Conquering Heroes, Book of Freeholds

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              • #8
                It's sort of amusing that the 20th Anniversary follow-ups to the Year of the Hunter seem to skip over Werewolf and Mage entirely and go straight into Wraith... (^VVVVVV^)

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Saur Ops Specialist View Post
                  It's sort of amusing that the 20th Anniversary follow-ups to the Year of the Hunter seem to skip over Werewolf and Mage entirely and go straight into Wraith... (^VVVVVV^)
                  I am not sure I'd count Paranormal investigators as Year of the Hunter. And I think HH2 basically covered the Werewolf groups.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Lian View Post

                    I am not sure I'd count Paranormal investigators as Year of the Hunter. And I think HH2 basically covered the Werewolf groups.
                    Some of the groups, but everything is very much geared toward Vampire, with it being a V20 book and all. A book on Werewolf hunter groups would have to have DNA in it somewhere, and likely wouldn't make note of chaoscopes that cause the NSA to suddenly realize that there are ghosts and vampires all around.

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                    • #11
                      There are linear mages in the groups, but m20 glosses over it for metaplot agnosticism and because sorcerer mechanics are kind of clunky. If you want them in, just treat them as mages that can only rote cast. Easiest way.

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                      • #12
                        If you want your sorcerers to be significantly weaker than awakened mages without having to consult the Revised book on them. A quick way is to make all their magic require expenditure of Will Power.


                        Keepers of the Wyck: A Chronicle I'm running UPDATE Chapter 26: Towers of Glass

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                        • #13
                          I assume that sorcerers exist because as far as I'm concerned any major magical group, tradition or technocracy, it doesn't matter, wouldn't be able to exist without them. They're the middle managers that keep the organization running, keeping an eye on the unawakened members and allowing mages to focus on the big decisions.

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                          • #14
                            Personally, I don't much like the sorcery mechanics as they are. While I don't really deal with them much personally, this is the way I'd handle that kind of linear magic.

                            Say Harry the Hermetic wants to be able to teach some sleepers to be able to fly. But they're not awakened. So what does he do? He goes about creating the 'Path of Flight' using the rules for a Talisman. The path of flight is a Arete X talisman (Generally very high.) That includes three effects. Firstly, it allows someone with access to it to use it to cast the spell 'fly' by using the methods described by the path. Secondly, it allows a current user to enable a new user, (without losing their user status) by forging a correspondence link between the Path and the new student of flight.

                            There. You have flying mortals. The same can be done with any set of powers you can think of. Schools of sorcery would have access to whatever powers the mages aligned with them could think up and develop a path for.

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                            • #15
                              Incidentally, I devised an alternative to the current sorcery system here and a variant on the next page.
                              http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/m...=1490762954308

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