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  • #16
    Quintessence extracted from an unwilling creature pretty much always comes with this bad resonance. It's part of why you don't really do that unless you're that desperate or do it for the kicks. It happily coincides with how these kind of people always do some absurdly elaborate rituals...gotta bring forth other resonances to compensate

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    • #17
      Actually, according to Mage Revised, it's not just bad resonance. Unwilling victims usually generate an equal and opposite measure of psychic Resonance absolutely opposed to the murderer and everything he or she stands for and that even willingly given quintessence is usually inefficient and loaded with Resonance. Of course, the former refers to the example of a murder of a victim in a nephandic ritual.

      My guess is that, since the vampires took the blood from possibly unwilling victims themselves and the vampire isn't actually being murdered, this mitigates some of that opposing resonance and brings it from "impossible to collect quintessence from" to "usually inefficient and loaded with Resonance". Vampire blood is considered tass after all so there must be a certain set of effects it can be used for, otherwise there would be no point in calling it tass. Maybe sucking the magic out of other things would be appropriately themed.

      IN M20, anything related to resonance seems to have become an optional rule and vampire blood is still considered tass.

      That said, going around treating creatures as your personal quintessence batteries is just asking for trouble... but I still want to see someone do it in a game.

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      • #18
        I don't think that second connection's really convincing :/

        For one unless you're explicitly returning it to the owner somehow it's easy to say nothing's changed.
        For another that takes away the power of the Curse of the vampires, makes their Atrocities less the nature of the monster and more just the actions of a cannibal sociopath. Vampires are more than that.

        We all agree it's tass. I'm just saying stealing it from the vampire will come loaded with heaps of bad stuff, even if it's "stealing from thieves".


        BTW Just double checked. Resonance is kind of three things. It appears as a modifier to spellcasting, and in the "optional rule" boards as the imprints of things and (synergy) how they manifest.
        Nothing is explicited about the first element, and is the one i'm referring to here.

        I'm treating it as mandatory here, but if you don't want to use them just be aware that much of the "cooties" from the OP's workings will go away. You'll be left only with the direct conversion and non-magickal implications of stealing someone's blood.
        Last edited by Synapse; 03-29-2017, 09:52 AM.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Synapse View Post
          For one unless you're explicitly returning it to the owner somehow it's easy to say nothing's changed.
          Actually, if nothing has changes, that would mean it's completely unusable, according to revised (unless the vampire fed from willing victims). My assessment of what the difference is might be wrong but something has to be different here or vampire blood would not be useable tass.

          Originally posted by Synapse View Post
          For another that takes away the power of the Curse of the vampires, makes their Atrocities less the nature of the monster and more just the actions of a cannibal sociopath. Vampires are more than that.
          I'm not contesting this point so much as asking how this is so. I don't understand your logic here at this point

          Originally posted by Synapse View Post
          I'm treating it as mandatory here, but if you don't want to use them just be aware that much of the "cooties" from the OP's workings will go away. You'll be left only with the direct conversion and non-magickal implications of stealing someone's blood.
          That's the thing, I was looking for it in M20 and couldn't find anything on it. If I'm to incorporate something like that in my games I'd prefer some hard rules on it rather than notations in the rotes of a previous edition. That said, I'm not the OP's storyteller.

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          • #20
            I'm just questioning your logic on how vitae tass is less bad because you're taking it from the vampire. At this point it's already the vampire's blood... and yeah it's a mess.

            On the rules: The trait resonance is treated as optional and explained there in pages 560 and 561, there the trait is detailed. Meanwhile in page 503, the chart for magickal difficulties, resonance appears without any other explanation. Just "appropriate/inappropriate"

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Synapse View Post
              I'm just questioning your logic on how vitae tass is less bad because you're taking it from the vampire. At this point it's already the vampire's blood... and yeah it's a mess.

              On the rules: The trait resonance is treated as optional and explained there in pages 560 and 561, there the trait is detailed. Meanwhile in page 503, the chart for magickal difficulties, resonance appears without any other explanation. Just "appropriate/inappropriate"
              Well, my logic could be wrong, but just to clear up what I was saying:
              Vampire Blood is Tass. If blood taken from an unwilling vampire and used for quintessence has the same problems as the quintessence taken from a sacrificed mortal, then the blood taken from a vampire would be utterly useless (as noted in mage revised). Therefore, something must be different with taking vampire blood and spilling the blood of an unwilling mortal. I suggested in a badly worded way that since you are not the victim's murderer and the blood belonged to the victim rather than the vampire, the resonance is not innately opposed to your very being and is perhaps more opposed to the vampire. Even if you kill the vampire, I thought maybe they wouldn't be able to taint it in the same way as the original owner or their being or killed hurt is not opposed by the resonance of the blood taken from their victims (because otherwise it would provide no quintessence). Therefore, while loaded with bad resonance, the vampire blood is still useable for certain types of magick, rather than utterly useless.


              Last edited by Spacecat; 03-29-2017, 12:18 PM.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Spacecat View Post

                Well, my logic could be wrong, but just to clear up what I was saying:
                Vampire Blood is Tass. If blood taken from an unwilling vampire and used for quintessence has the same problems as the quintessence taken from a sacrificed mortal, then the blood taken from a vampire would be utterly useless (as noted in mage revised). Therefore, something must be different with taking vampire blood and spilling the blood of an unwilling mortal. I suggested in a badly worded way that since you are not the victim's murderer and the blood belonged to the victim rather than the vampire, the resonance is not innately opposed to your very being and is perhaps more opposed to the vampire. Even if you kill the vampire, I thought maybe they wouldn't be able to taint it in the same way as the original owner or their being or killed hurt is not opposed by the resonance of the blood taken from their victims (because otherwise it would provide no quintessence). Therefore, while loaded with bad resonance, the vampire blood is still useable for certain types of magick, rather than utterly useless.

                The difference here, is the sacrificial mortal doesn't CONTAIN tass. They are, like every other thing, MADE OF tass. When you sacrifice a mortal for quintessence, what you're doing is unmaking them and trying to redirect some of the quintessence that spills from their form into your cup, rather than just back into the tapestry. You can do the same thing with physical objects and things as well.

                Since that quintessence is THEM, they say "No, you go fuck yourself" and defy gravity to make sure none of their life-juice goes into your cup.

                A vampires Vitae on the other hand. Is not their constructive tass. If you take it away they suffer ill effects, of course, but you don't have to literally unmake them to get at it. So using it is MUCH MUCH EASIER. Though not without it's difficulties.

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                • #23
                  What about werewolf claws?

                  Edit: That does make more sense, what you wrote.
                  Last edited by Spacecat; 03-29-2017, 04:35 PM.

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