Prime Sphere questions...

[NicoTheDuck]

Hi,

Questions about the Prime Spheres have been asked many times but I have trouble with some terms. May be it's because English is not my native langage. Anyway, I could use some help on interpreting what the Prime Sphere can do and at which level, concerning the manipulation of Quintessence (the other things are pretty much understood ^^). My questions are concerning the M20 version of the Sphere (since there are differences with previous versions of the game).

Prime 1 : "A beginning study of Prime allows the mage to perceive and channel Quintessence from Nodes, Tass, Wonders, and magickal Effects."
What exactly does "channel" mean in that context ? Does it mean using Quintessence inside Nodes, Tass and Wonders ? Or acquiring Quintessence from those sources ? What about "channel from magical effects" ? What does it mean ? Is that another way to describe Unweaving ? Or is this something else ?

Prime 2 : "Weapons or attacks infused with Quintessence through Prime 2 Effects may hurt spirits or inflict aggravated damage, and substances infused the same way may protect against such harm."
I understand that you can add Prime 2 (and a point of Quintessence (seen in the tables)) to inflict aggravated damage. Is that correct ?

Prime 3 : "With such powers, she could (with Life 3) enchant a living thing so that it could inflict or endure aggravated damage; inflict aggravated damage by shaking up that organism’s life force"
Does it mean that you can directly inflict aggravated damage with Prime 3 ? Whereas an effect with other Spheres is needed to inflict aggravated damage with Prime 2 (see previous point) ?

Prime 3 : "pull small amounts of life force from a living sacrifice or (with Matter 2) from inert objects"
Does this mean that you gain quintessence points ? Or does this mean that you can regain health points (What is "living force" btw ?") ? I think it refers to quintessence points. If not, I do not understand what you can do with inert objects...

Prime 3 : "By tapping into the flow of Quintessence around her, the Prime-skilled mage can draw both free and raw Quintessence from Nodes, Junctures (special times), and Tass (solidified Quintessence)… and she may also channel that energy into new and existing Patterns as well."
I assume that "tapping" means that you gain quintessence point from Nodes, Junctures and Tass. Then, what's the difference between Free and Raw Quintessence ?
It also says that you can "channel that energy into new and existing patterns". Ok... what's the difference between that and Prime 1 (see question above...)

Prime 4 : "The terrible power of draining Quintessence from objects or forces (though not yet from living things) can disintegrate those targets, consume them in Primal flames, or decay them almost instantly."
What's the difference between that and the living/object sacrifice available at Prime 3 ?

Prime 5 : "A Prime Master can draw Quintessence from anywhere, at any time, and channel it into other vessels as well."
I may be mistaken, but what's the difference between Prime 1 (Nodes, Tass and Wonders) and Prime 3 ? It seems that Prime 3 enables the channeling through living beings. I'm lost there...

Prime 5 : A dark, vulgar aspect of that power allows her to obliterate a living being by consuming all of his life force, whereas the reverse of that power infuses him with life force so strong that he’s essentially blessed.
Two questions : what's the difference between Prime 3 living sacrifice ? What the hell blessed mean in that context ?????

One more subsidiary question : In the Book of Chantries, the creation of a Node was Prime 3 / Matter 3. It's Prime 5 in M20. This seems much more difficult (that's not a problem for me, just need a confirmation). However, I think there is a difference between creating a Node and Awakening a Sleeping Node. Does I invent a concept ? I'm sure I read something about it somewhere but can not find where...

On one of my games, the players just created a kind of powerful Foundation (I'm not using all the rules) and they ask a lot of questions about what they can do with the Prime Sphere since it involves spending a lot of XP on it. I need to be sure of what I tell them.

Thank you in advance !

[CTPhipps]

A friendly reminder, it's probably best to start a new thread when one is over three years old. No problem, just a forum policy.

[Muad'Dib]

Indeed, they can draw from thin air, direct from the Tapestry. It's always Vulgar, and it's very powerful, but then Master levels are supposed to be close to "godlike".

This part about Prime 5 I dislike, in how it is described, and what it suggests about doing Magick. I think it should be that a Mage always needs some kind of Focus or a circumstance to use this Prime 5 capability - it shouldn't be simply by focusing and pulling Quintessence from "thin air". Paradigm and Foci need to be taken into account.

[JagneStormskull]

Hi,

Prime 2 : "Weapons or attacks infused with Quintessence through Prime 2 Effects may hurt spirits or inflict aggravated damage, and substances infused the same way may protect against such harm."
I understand that you can add Prime 2 (and a point of Quintessence (seen in the tables)) to inflict aggravated damage. Is that correct ?

You can also use Prime 2 to create a Trinket of Prime 2 that does permanent aggravated damage, even in the hands of sleepers or mages/technomancers of other factions (Book of Secrets Pages 140, 149, and 161).

[Aleph]

When you say that with Prime 5 you can draw from "nowhere", does that mean that you do no need a Node anymore to get Quintessence ? This seems very overpowered.

Indeed, they can draw from thin air, direct from the Tapestry. It's always Vulgar, and it's very powerful, but then Master levels are supposed to be close to "godlike".

[NicoTheDuck]

I thank you for your answers. It's much clearer in my mind

When you say that with Prime 5 you can draw from "nowhere", does that mean that you do no need a Node anymore to get Quintessence ? This seems very overpowered.

Well, my players are not there anyway.

Ok for the Book of Chantries. I thought it was from Mage 2 which whas the edition I begun with (just before the release of M20 actually...). That explains the differences.

Thanks !

[Aleph]

1* To put it simply: with Prime 1, you can suck Quintessence above your Avatar rating. That's what, I think, "channeling" means in this case. Arguably the power to transform your Healt levels into Quintessence also it's part of this channeling (unfortunately, this isn't a two ways road, you can transform your Healt into Quint you can't turn it back)

2* Yes. You don't need to spend quintessence multiple times for the same source of damage (I.E: you spend it to charm your sword, and then it causes aggravated for the Duration). It only works for nonliving material and spells

3* Yes and no. You could inflict aggravated with other spheres without needing Prime. For instance, Life 3 does Aggravated per se. You need Prime 2 to make things that normaly do not cause Aggravated cause Aggravated, and Prime 3 to throw a Kamehameha wave (or another appropiate effect) that causes Agg directly. You also need Prime 3 to cause Agg with your punches or other natural weapons

3.2 * It's Quintessence

3.3* It means that you can gain Quintessence from these places without resorting to the normal means. For instance, you need to eat Tass in order to use it to gain Quintessence, but with Prime 3 you can drain it's juice without touching or ingesting it. Great for Quint thiefs.

The difference between raw and free: I owe you some reference, but imagine that "raw" it's Quintessence points (pure quintessence like the one that a mage has in it's wheel) and "free" it's a flow of quintessence, untapped, quintessence in the ambient (like what happens in a Juncture or a Node).
Affecting "raw" allows things like sucking another mage's Quint (but only if it isn't stored in the Avatar, that is, only if it was gained thanks to Prime 1+). Affecting free allows to suck from a Juncture

"channel that energy into new and existing patterns" it's very similar to level 1, but in this case you affect other beings and objects, this allows you to create Tass, or to move the energy from Tass to another object, to feed another Mage with your Quintessence...

4*
Everything in the multiverse it's composed of Quintessence, when something dies, a
part of that quintessence it's released to the world in the form of free quintessence, but not all of it, because usually when things break they don't turn into nothing, but leave parts, release energy, etc...only a small part of an object becomes quintessence when you break it, and this happens naturally.

With 3 you grab something (like a sheep, for instance) break/kill it, and THEN suck the very small amount of free quintessence that it's released naturally when something meaningfull it's destroyed. In truth, it's just an application of the power to move free quintessence.

4 it's very different, it allows you to attack an object's Quintessence directly, in doing so the object disappears, it becomes nothing (well, it becomes lots of free quintessence, that some mage, perhaps you, might drain using 3). Only work on non-living inanimated objects

5*
You can draw from the world and into someone, recharing a mage from "nowhere". Also this channeling it's slightly different because now you can transform Quint into Healt.

Also 5 does the same as 4 but to living (or un-living) beings. It may useful against people with the power to raise from the dead because it doesn't leave a body to be raised.

Creating a Node it's Prime 5 from 2 edition and onwards. Book of Chantries it's from 1rst ed. A really old book.