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Technocracy vs Black Spiral Dancers?

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  • #76
    Eh, they went back and forth between "The Technocracy won the war" and "Both sides lost."

    So I split the difference with a Pyrrhic victory.

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    • #77
      Originally posted by Aleph View Post
      Indeed, they can go Vulgar. They even have Procedures that are ALWAYS Vulgar
      This is not something special in itself. There are Mystic Rotes which are always Vulgar. Mystics can go Vulgar, as well.

      Originally posted by Aleph View Post
      They just shy from it's use, mostly because it's dangerous.
      And because of all the other reasons True Mages might avoid casting Vulgar Effects. It's harder, for example. Another reason is that it is bad for maintaining subtlety and secrecy.
      Last edited by Muad'Dib; 08-29-2017, 01:40 AM.

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      • #78
        I find it interesting that this thread seems to treat this all as a very strategic 'Technocracy sends in as much as is necessary' situation. In any game I ran, the Technocracy moving against a Hive would be a local Construct trying to work out if they had the resources necessary for this. 4-8 Enlightened Scientists & 20-40 lightly enhanced Citizens (Extraordinary or otherwise), perhaps? Up against 2-4 packs (6-20 BSDs) in the sept & perhaps a dozen spirits bargained with for the protection of the Hive; maybe even some support from Pentex, depending on the circumstances.

        That to me sounds like the Union might be able to win, but at a lot of risk and certainly not without putting everything else they were working on at risk.


        ---------------------------------------------
        Supporter of Spirits getting full playable splat design come Exalted 3E.
        Refugee from the 3rd Great Edition Wars of D&D.
        oWoD Latecomer, Exalted Optimist, Scion ST, Trinity Curious

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        • #79
          Originally posted by Yue Ryong View Post
          I find it interesting that this thread seems to treat this all as a very strategic 'Technocracy sends in as much as is necessary' situation. In any game I ran, the Technocracy moving against a Hive would be a local Construct trying to work out if they had the resources necessary for this. 4-8 Enlightened Scientists & 20-40 lightly enhanced Citizens (Extraordinary or otherwise), perhaps? Up against 2-4 packs (6-20 BSDs) in the sept & perhaps a dozen spirits bargained with for the protection of the Hive; maybe even some support from Pentex, depending on the circumstances.

          That to me sounds like the Union might be able to win, but at a lot of risk and certainly not without putting everything else they were working on at risk.
          That's not the way the Technocracy works unless a time crunch means waiting for reinforcements is detrimental.

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          • #80
            Or unless they think that they can neutralize the Hive without calling for help. Technocracy does expect an Amalgam to take initiative if they can solve the problem without much risk. You shouldn't take unnecessary risks, but you can't call the local Symposium each time you discover a vampire, otherwise your superiors will think you're not up to the task of elevating and protecting mankind.

            Asses the danger of the Pit could be a mission issued to an Amalgam of the local Construct. After that you need to think about how to eliminate the threat expending the minimum amount of resources possible because otherwise the other Technocrats start complaining...Sure it would be nice to have a lot of Voidships firing photon torpedoes to the Hive, but VE would much rather have those fighting against that Treath they refuse to mention, Sure, the Syndicate have resources, but those would be much better spent elsewhere to increase proffit. Technocracy sending reinforcements shouldn't be taken for granted, the fact that you can ask for this kind of reinforcement and that you WILL get them if you can make your case already sets them appart from any other supernatural group.

            If you cannot convince your superiors that the Hive it's a serious enough a threath, they won't send the reinforcements. This is where Technocracy general blindness to the Midde Umbra and BSD trully enters in play. Even if you discover the Hive, your superiors would be like: Werewolves, our projections show that they will be extint in the next decade or so...do not waste resources unless they really start screwing things up. You would need to be very convincing about the danger such a Hive represents if you want them to send the necessary force. That, in itself, could be a Technocratic adventure, where the peril would be to underestimate the Hive and/or fail to produce good enough evidence (or if a Technepandi intercepts it, and arranges your death).
            Last edited by Aleph; 08-29-2017, 11:04 AM.

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            • #81
              Also, depending on the sort of guy or girl leading the local Amalgams, it could be an opportunity to demonstrate one's skills and Enlightenment (or, in Etherite parlance: "to make all those fools at the university regret my expulsion!").

              For example - I could imagine a VE leading the local Technocrats testing out his new Local Reality Anchor devices on the Hive. At several precisely calculated "Lagrange points" surrounding the Hive, Anchors are installed within a reinforced building and fed from onsite Matrices. They progressively raise the Gauntlet in an expanding area, eventually asserting material reality at the aberration within the tunnels. Now, if he comes back to the Symposium, not only has he removed a number of dangerous shapeshifting Reality Deviants and repaired a breach in the all-important Gauntlet, he also designed the hypertech, the efficacy of which was just demonstrated! Cue the funding.

              (That's not to say this particular idea is awesome on its own - BSDs would have no problem breaking into a random Technocratic outpost and shredding the inhabitants. This guy would also need some powerful Mind fields preventing them from acknowledging its existence, or Correspondence-enhanced doors that only lead to the actual interior of the building when the correct Procedures are engaged.)

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              • #82
                As far as the Technocracy and Pentex are concerned, I always thought in white room combat, the Pentex would win pretty convincingly. If this were more of a strategic battle, the Technocrats would win easily.

                But my knowledge from this comes from educated(and uneducated guesswork) and other rpg forums who've wondered the same thing as me.


                PENTEX SUCKS.

                I'm a gamer. I'm conservative. We exist.

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                • #83
                  Forgive the roundbout answer, I think it's worth reading in answer to the question.

                  If you want to go with a full crossover, then the setting you create is what counts.

                  When allowing werewolf elements into my mage game, I make the worm a known threat to the Void Engineers, they treat it very seriously, as do many of the Progenitors, and even some members of the other conventions.

                  The Garou are thought of as a unique and highly resilient breed of Reality Deviants who are deeply entrenched in a culture of cognitive dissonance and religious fanaticism which may or may not be the result of genetic or innate qualities.

                  The Techoncracy WOULD see the Garou as worthy of extermination, particularly because the Garou value nodes in the extreme and have a strongly possessive belief regarding them, to the point where they will sometimes become maliciously violent towards constructs and personnel attached to said nodes.

                  However, the Garou are also deeply dedicated to the destruction of the worm (also known as Extra-Dimension Entity insert code-name here), as such, there are some theories among fringe technocrats that the 'Garou' are possibly a natural immune system within reality and that they exist to destroy the worm. More common is simply the belief that they should simply be allowed to continue to exist and used as a proxy against the worm, an entity which the Garou appear to be very well equipped to fight. Even if they contaminate the gene pool and practice a religious crusade of irrationally radical environmentalism.

                  This brings me to my answer to your question. The Garou nation is a reckless and dangerous cult of fanatics, they do however obey what they call "the Veil," a self policing mechanism that prevents them from violating the consensus in many cases. Should elements of the Garou nation come to violate the veil too frequently, they simply require an 'adjustment' to steer them back to their standard operating procedures. Provided they don't become too much of a liability (and if weren't for the work they do in keeping the worm in check, they would be WAY too much of a liability), they can be allowed to continue their religious crusade on their own terms... mostly.

                  And when the Tehcnocracy finds out about a Worm Pit, well, it just forwards that information on to... certain relevant parties.

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Originally posted by Zennis View Post
                    Forgive the roundbout answer, I think it's worth reading in answer to the question.

                    If you want to go with a full crossover, then the setting you create is what counts.

                    When allowing werewolf elements into my mage game, I make the worm a known threat to the Void Engineers, they treat it very seriously, as do many of the Progenitors, and even some members of the other conventions.

                    The Garou are thought of as a unique and highly resilient breed of Reality Deviants who are deeply entrenched in a culture of cognitive dissonance and religious fanaticism which may or may not be the result of genetic or innate qualities.

                    The Techoncracy WOULD see the Garou as worthy of extermination, particularly because the Garou value nodes in the extreme and have a strongly possessive belief regarding them, to the point where they will sometimes become maliciously violent towards constructs and personnel attached to said nodes.

                    However, the Garou are also deeply dedicated to the destruction of the worm (also known as Extra-Dimension Entity insert code-name here), as such, there are some theories among fringe technocrats that the 'Garou' are possibly a natural immune system within reality and that they exist to destroy the worm. More common is simply the belief that they should simply be allowed to continue to exist and used as a proxy against the worm, an entity which the Garou appear to be very well equipped to fight. Even if they contaminate the gene pool and practice a religious crusade of irrationally radical environmentalism.

                    This brings me to my answer to your question. The Garou nation is a reckless and dangerous cult of fanatics, they do however obey what they call "the Veil," a self policing mechanism that prevents them from violating the consensus in many cases. Should elements of the Garou nation come to violate the veil too frequently, they simply require an 'adjustment' to steer them back to their standard operating procedures. Provided they don't become too much of a liability (and if weren't for the work they do in keeping the worm in check, they would be WAY too much of a liability), they can be allowed to continue their religious crusade on their own terms... mostly.

                    And when the Tehcnocracy finds out about a Worm Pit, well, it just forwards that information on to... certain relevant parties.
                    One wonders just how much the Union would freak out if they found out they were living in a Prince of Darkness-esque existence and one or two members of every Amalgalm showed up like in this scene to deliver ominous warnings to their former colleagues every so often.

                    (I'm not really stretching things for the established lore of various WoD sources, either. Check the end of the Book of the Weaver's second chapter. And it's suggested that the capacities for control and destruction that you see in the movie could be matched by a tiny piece of the Wyrm, the Talon Thrassus Thrice-Damned)

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                    • #85
                      Originally posted by Aleph View Post
                      Most perceived problems of crossover come because one assumes that *my* magical thing it's going to be super effective just because nothing says it won't. Ignoring that the material most likely wasn't written with every game-line and every situation in mind.
                      Pretty much this. The cWoD was explicitly not constructed to operate as a unified narrative. Even within the same game line the books contradict each other, and there are loads of sidebars encouraging players to disregard the metaplot and anything else that doesn't work for their game. At no point did someone review the mechanical underpinnings of all WoD material with an eye to them working together out of the box (and WW isn't well-known for mechanical rigor in any case). Every piece of fiction in which X supernatural wrecks Y number of Z supernatural was written because it seemed cool to the writers at the time. Even when WW literally ended the world they didn't provide a unified narrative. Werewolves got their Apocalypse. Mages got Ascension. Vampires had Gehenna. Most everyone else got Time of Judgment.

                      Q: Who wins in an all-out fight between tons of Wyrm-slaves and tons of Technocrats?
                      A: Whatever advances the narrative and is fun for my current group of players. Most likely answer is "everyone loses, particularly the world at large."

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                      • #86
                        Originally posted by Totentanz View Post
                        At no point did someone review the mechanical underpinnings of all WoD material with an eye to them working together out of the box (and WW isn't well-known for mechanical rigor in any case).
                        Quoted for Truth.

                        It took me a bit just to get past the fluff exposition and actually start reading the rules... but then I was rather struck by the writers rather.... dickish and nonsensical ideas of the way certain things should work.

                        Like.... "Let's make Wonders of all stripes stupidly powerful in forged by dragons fire. How are we going to balance this? Force people to waste game night time sitting out of the game while everyone stares at their cheating powergaming self. Crafting magical items. HMMF."

                        Each of the books seems more or less to be written on train of thought mind to page info vomit with little to no refining.

                        Which, is great for the fluff. But the crunch suffers.

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                        • #87
                          It helps if you toss the Union information on Wyrm-tainted corporations and couch it in terms of Nephandic influence. Then again, our group has the advantage of serious amounts of Occult Lore. We told them about Special Projects Division.

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