No announcement yet.

Nephandi crossover stuff

  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Nephandi crossover stuff

    Ok, this may all end up being something that is left up to the ST to decide, but I put the question to people who've read far more than me of Mage in case this has actually been dealt with somewhere.

    So suppose a Nephandi dies, and then is possessed by a demon from DTF. Now, Demons have a Torment of 10 when in hell and then that gets reduced to like 4 or 5 when they possess a human because as they merge with that human's mind, their Torment is mitigated by that person's "humanity". My question is, would this change because it's a Nephandi? Would their Torment stay at 10 because they were so evil, or would it also be mitigated because the Nephandi's avatar is gone?

    Similarly, what if the Nephandi were embraced by a vampire? What would their Humanity be? 0 again because of being so evil, or more normal because their avatar is now dead/converted?

    Any thoughts on what kind of wraith a Nephandi might produce?

  • #2
    A Nephandic Wraith is the easiest to answer as it would be a Spectre, likewise a Demon in the body of a Nephandus I believe would be somewhat different to normal but I don't know Demon well enough to comment (the problem being the way that demon kind of fails to cross over with the Mage/Vampire Demon and Infernal rules and way things work). If embraced by a Vampire they would default to whatever the combination of virtues they have at moment of embrace totals out to, odds are they wouldn't have a Humanity rating for long and they would either quickly be on a Path or become a Wight in short order.


    • #3
      In the case of Vampire, remember that Humanity and Virtues isn't something that it's gained with the Embrace, much like you don't gain Willpower with the Embrace.

      More to the point, the mortal mages of the Tal'mahe'Ra have Virtues and Morality...but they don't seem to follow Humanity, and I would think that a Nephandi wouldn't be running on Humanity either.

      If an Itarajana, being a mortal, can have the Path of Death and Bones at 6 (as per the example of the TBH book, page 160), a Nephandi can have the Path of Dark Revelations or something like that at a high level: these mages have embraced the alien morality of their Masters, they weren't really "Human" before the Embrace.

      This is a crossover oddness because other games do not have these Traits.

      In the case of Demons, it's stated that the Demons can't incorporate a mage's soul the same way they can do with a mortal, but they use the same system of possesion as with mortals (it's just that they can't gain Lore nor exceptional powers). They retain the experience of the mage but not it's Avatar.

      I would imagine that if possesing monstrous human isn't going to get you Torment 10, neither should a Nephandi's experience-whatever inhuman evil there was is gone and you just have the memories of being a really bad person, and even that may be fragmented as the inhuman knolwedge of the mage passes away-who knows?, it may as well quell the general anger and awaken some compassion in the soul of the demon.
      Last edited by Aleph; 11-14-2017, 11:04 AM.


      • #4
        In the case of a demon possessing an Nephandi I can't help but recall that exorcism episode of "Angel" where the twist was that the demon actually wanted to leave but couldn't because the kid wouldn't let him go and was far more wicked than it could ever hope to be.

        Something like that... a Fallen trapped inside a more powerful Nephandus it tried to possess and now being used as a battery... would make a fun NPC as a means of crossing over Mage and Demon with a common foe (say an entire cult of Nephandi who are dangling likely targets for the newly escaped Fallen and then binding them against their wills for even darker purpose).


        • #5
          It is hard to tell how much of a monster a Nephandus is without its Avatar, and this should be the first problem answered. But I would say that for most Nephandi the answer is "enough", unless the specific chronicle states otherwise. Unless that particular Nephandus had a marked internal conflict between human soul and Inverted Avatar, displaying depravity as something she does more out of impulse and lack of control, or as a kind of "possession" or other mental issue, most of them would be at least acclimated enough to being that evil to simply not change much on how it will develop.

          As Aleph said, Humanity and Virtues aren't traits the Embrace bestow upon you. They are just assumed by VtM to be traits everyone possess. So you would have to find out what should be the ratings of the Nephandus before the Embrace as if she had always been described in Vampire rules (as a Mortal). With that in mind, a Path of Enlightenment is quite a possibility even before the Embrace, as a result of her dark beliefs. If not, then she would have Humanity 1, as per the minimum a mortal have by rule, and would need to find a quick solution to not loosing this thin grasp to intelligence.

          Demon is actually simpler, but with a broader set of options. The Demon isn't the person possessed, and so it doesn't have to pay heed to anything this person made in life. Demons can come to Earth actually in any point of the Torment spectrum, but the PCs are given a hard rule to start with 3 or 4. What the Demon will actually have depends too much on how the Demon's mind process the information from the mortal's memories. The Demon can be either worse or better than the mortal was. So, though you could make a case for Nephandi making for high-Torment Fallen most of the time, it shouldn't be a hard rule at all, and a PC so made should still get the Torment mentioned for char-creation rules on your chronicle. Also, keep in mind that this is only valid for the very first trip of a Demon to the mortal world. After that, Torment doesn't defaults anymore.

          Sorry if I seem too straightforward, or if I don't get you. Autism isn't a forgiving condition.


          • #6
            Thanks guys! This all helps. My current character's background just seems to keep growing, and yeah, lots of cross-over weirdness.