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  • Mage 5 and a new vision

    I recently checked out the alpha slice for V5, Vampire fifth edition, (the X20 books are now being regarded as an edition it seems) and it got me thinking about Mage 5.

    Now I believe the developers said they’d be developing a fifth edition for werewolf and then Mage, though when that will be, who knows?

    The new direction for V5 is quite different from the previous editions, everything from how Vampires feed, to what it means to belong to the Camarilla has changed.

    This got me thinking, will Mage be reenvisioned as drastically?

    I for one hope so. I was never a fan of nWOD but I DO want to see a reenvisioned Mage the Ascension, one where the developers aren’t afraid to make sweeping changes and try something new.

    I would even be open to significant changes to the Traditions and Conventions.

    I’m curious how others feel. Is there any support for this or do people want Mage the Ascension to stick to the old material without really changing it?

    I feel it’s acceptable to go in a new direction with the published material and don’t want to see the new editions rehash the old material, BRING ON THE NEW!
    Last edited by Zennis; 12-12-2017, 04:06 AM.

  • #2
    Well, WW clearly isn't afraid of drastic changes.

    That said, I don't want to see change for the sake of change (one of the reasons I've found the V5 material extremely disappointing is that most of the changes seem driven far more by wanting to look like they're radically altering the game, when they're just tossing in a few things on top of the same engine with what seems like very poor understanding of how it all slots together). And they seem to want the 5th edition stuff to be mechanically compatible-ish from their statements.

    I think the biggest problem for Mage, is that I can't really think of any direction to take it that isn't better served by other games. Ascension is firmly camped on the "crazy philosophy wars over subjective reality" thing. If you try to pull it into other directions, you're in competition with Awakening, Unknown Armies, the Dresden Files RPG, Kult, Witchcraft, CoC, etc. There's a lot of modern day magic user games out there, and most of them do other takes on the concept really well.

    There's plenty of sacred cows the game can afford to slaughter, but in the end, what's the point of a Mage 5th edition that doesn't actually play like Mage?

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    • #3
      I think if there would be another edition of M:tA, then one of the main goals should be to develop the Nephandi into a more complex faction of True Mages.
      For example, currently there isn't enough material in the M:tA books to enable and make it possible for a player to have a Nephandus True Mage as their character; a storyteller or a player has to add a lot additional information, interpretation and background in order to do so.


      Originally posted by Zennis View Post
      I would even be open to significant changes to the Traditions and Conventions.
      What kind of changes to the Traditions and the Technocracy's Conventions would you suggest in a new edition of M:tA ?

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Zennis View Post
        I’m curious how others feel. Is there any support for this or do people want Mage the Ascension to stick to the old material without really changing it?
        I like Ascension as it is, even a bit more during the Revised metaplot. I think it has the best iteration of the Storyteller engine and maybe the second-best setting after Wraith, so while I think there is room for improvements I don't think it's a game that needs them much.

        That said, there is nothing preventing me to keep playing Revised if I want, so what's the point of a the-more-the-same new edition? While I still rather play Ascension I kinda liked the new take on the Awakening game line, it gave us something different and that's really the most important thing IMHO. So I'd say: please hit me with something original, I can always stick to the old if I don't like it.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Heavy Arms View Post
          Well, WW clearly isn't afraid of drastic changes.

          That said, I don't want to see change for the sake of change (one of the reasons I've found the V5 material extremely disappointing is that most of the changes seem driven far more by wanting to look like they're radically altering the game, when they're just tossing in a few things on top of the same engine with what seems like very poor understanding of how it all slots together). And they seem to want the 5th edition stuff to be mechanically compatible-ish from their statements.

          I think the biggest problem for Mage, is that I can't really think of any direction to take it that isn't better served by other games. Ascension is firmly camped on the "crazy philosophy wars over subjective reality" thing. If you try to pull it into other directions, you're in competition with Awakening, Unknown Armies, the Dresden Files RPG, Kult, Witchcraft, CoC, etc. There's a lot of modern day magic user games out there, and most of them do other takes on the concept really well.

          There's plenty of sacred cows the game can afford to slaughter, but in the end, what's the point of a Mage 5th edition that doesn't actually play like Mage?
          That.

          To me V5 feels a lot like shoving the Masquerade Metaplot into a Requiem style setting-I don't like that. M5 should play like Mage.

          I could be OK with A LOT of changes in the mechanics as long as they don't depart from the core concepts of the game-Rote rules would be nice, I wouldn't mind mechanical compatibility between the lines, Spheres and Paradox have been changed before-as long as they do respect the core concepts of the game I'm fine with it.

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          • #6
            I'd be looking for something which makes Mage less daunting to new players. The general mechanics aren't too difficult, but there need to be less byzantine systems than in M20 How Do You Do That? and more information for the player who isn't going for heavy lore immersion into how to make a character.

            While there is a conversion guide, you really need both Awakening and Ascension to use the conversion guide. I've found other system conversion guides that flow well without having both books.

            Perhaps rather than looking for a Mage 5th edition, White Wolf could carefully craft Storyteller's Vault guidelines for Mage. Mage, being a game about the nature of reality and how to transform it, is well-suited to many different opinions as long as they are well-written and delivered.

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            • #7
              HDYDT might have been less byzantine if it didn't completely contradict both the M20 core and itself at various points. Lack of consistency has always been one of the strongest and weakest parts of Mage. Strong in that it pushes people to not worry too much about a one true way, weak in that it tends to get people completely lost.


              Mage: The Ice-ension: An Epic Game of Reality on the Rink

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              • #8
                I think that the biggest change they need is to make the ascention war a real war. The last couple editions, especially revised, it was more the technocrasy just tormenting a bunch of tradition mages who had no real chance of winning. If you want to make a war setting interesting both sides of the conflict have to have a reasonable chance of victory.

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                • #9
                  See, I think the reverse is happening. As time goes on it seems the Traditions are depicted as closer to evenly matched with the Technocracy. They are not on an even footing, but they are a far cry from the shattered resistance on the run from the overwhelming power of the Man that they were in years gone by. For that matter the Technocracy is far from the overwhelming power of the Man.


                  Mage: The Ice-ension: An Epic Game of Reality on the Rink

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                  • #10
                    The council was slaughtered like defenseless children, and the traditions are now led by a group of movie producers hiding in the Alps. Not exactly my idea of being anywhere near evenly matched.

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                    • #11
                      Would anyone be open to the Traditions being reworked? That is, change up exactly what groups comprise the Traditions.


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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Dataweaver View Post
                        Would anyone be open to the Traditions being reworked? That is, change up exactly what groups comprise the Traditions.
                        Do you think it would be new True Mage groups, or would it be Crafts, or a group(s) made up of former members of a Technocracy Convention?

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Dataweaver View Post
                          Would anyone be open to the Traditions being reworked? That is, change up exactly what groups comprise the Traditions.
                          I totally am. In fact I would like the Traditions ot be reworked, I’m open to a council of Nine with 9 new players or a council of 17 with some only and some new.

                          I actually would like to see a reworking fo the Traditions and a whole new take on the mystical societies of the world.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Ramnesis View Post
                            See, I think the reverse is happening. As time goes on it seems the Traditions are depicted as closer to evenly matched with the Technocracy.
                            I'd say that the Traditions are depicted in M:tA as being evenly matched with the Technocracy, in regards to the capabilities of their True Mages and, for example, the intricacy of the groups and organizations that exist within Traditions. I think this is especially clear once a person takes into account that the Technocracy's Conventions are simillar to the individual Traditions, in regards to the fact that the True Mages that are part of the individual Conventions don't have the same amount of cooperation between them that the True Mages within the same Tradition or the same Convention do have.

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                            • #15
                              As an aside... If the concepts of Mage in 5th (if it comes about) are even close to those in previous edition you still should not, ever, have a Nephandus as a player character.

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