Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

True Faith question

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • True Faith question

    One of our players is an ex-Gladius Dei Catholic bishop. He's essentially human, except for the True Faith and being permanently enchanted. Does True Faith do anything to Wyrm spirits? Can you eject a bane from a fomori? Does it do anything to Nephandi? Aside from ( I think) innate countermagic? Marauders... who knows? Though that would be amusing to watch.

  • #2
    According to M20, dots in True Faith act as a bulwark and offense against beings that oppose the character's faith. What "opposes the character's faith" means is left ambiguous, but I imagine it depends on the character's creed and beliefs.

    That said, a Catholic with True Faith is probably going to see evil beings and unclean spirits as being uniformly antithetical to their sensibilities.

    Wyrmish beings represent corruption and death. Christianity as a whole considers Death to be an obscenity - a force created in response to sin, which is a turning away from God - and that Death will be defeated once and for all with the Second Coming. (Technically, Jesus already defeated Death by returning from the grave, showing God's dominion over all and His unlimited power.) So, from the Christian perspective, this "Wyrm" is obviously a devil, if not Death itself gone above its station, and these "Banes" its demonic servants. Rebuking a bane from the Fomori its possesses should be as intuitive to such a character as casting out devils. Even the unclean spirits are part of God's creation, and must obey exorcisms performed with His backing.

    I would imagine that Nephandi, by nature of definition, are also opponents of a Catholic's creed. They have naught but wickedness in their hearts, and many worship dark beings. Infernalist Nephandi are no-brainers, but a similar case could be made for followers of the Wyrm (as stated previously) and of the so-called "Outer Gods". So Nephandi would be subject to many sorts of effects that True Faith would give. M20 has a whole section (p. 645) devoted to what sorts of stuff True Faith can do, including to beings that oppose the character's creed.


    Comment


    • #3
      Thanks. I'll go look that up. ^^

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Saint Michael View Post
        One of our players is an ex-Gladius Dei Catholic bishop. He's essentially human, except for the True Faith and being permanently enchanted. Does True Faith do anything to Wyrm spirits? Can you eject a bane from a fomori? Does it do anything to Nephandi? Aside from ( I think) innate countermagic? Marauders... who knows? Though that would be amusing to watch.
        If you read Fomori, Freak Legion, there's a section on True Faith. Fomori can even HAVE True Faith, if they're exceptionally unlucky. You see True Faith protects against possession somewhat, and lets you banish a spirit which has possessed you, but this can leave a Fomorus horribly deformed, with all of the downsides of being a Fomorus (except for the evil spirit) and none of the upsides.

        If a Fomorus with True Faith botches a roll to banish a spirit, they accidentally banish the Bane inside of themselves. So according to Werewolf material True Faith is bad for Banes yes.

        Comment


        • #5
          .... yeah, that's bad for the fomor. Thanks! Speaking of Infernal stuff, anyone ever used Lahama (which are awesome)?
          Last edited by Saint Michael; 08-20-2018, 04:38 PM.

          Comment


          • #6
            Take a gander at the Celestial Chorus book. They go over this stuff in detail. True Faith is a neat concept that's under utilized in WoD. Hilariously, Dresden Files is the best example of how to handle it. Don't mess with a holy knight in Dresden Files, they're scary.

            Comment


            • #7
              I find it amusing that True Faith does nothing to fae. Then again, they shrug off Wyrm taint without noticing. I don't have either book for celestial chorus, sadly. Revised or first edition?

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Saint Michael View Post
                I find it amusing that True Faith does nothing to fae. Then again, they shrug off Wyrm taint without noticing. I don't have either book for celestial chorus, sadly. Revised or first edition?
                True Faith could do something to some fae. It depends on their echoes. Some true fae are turned to stone by a cross, for example, so true faith could expand on themes like that.

                Comment


                • #9
                  In Changeling, True Faith doesn't do anything to changelings unless they have Echoes. My sluagh was temporarily flash-blinded, but that was it.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Saint Michael View Post
                    In Changeling, True Faith doesn't do anything to changelings unless they have Echoes. My sluagh was temporarily flash-blinded, but that was it.

                    Depends on how you run it. I've definately seen intepretations that allow bigots with True faith to do some pretty ugly stuff...

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by theoutlander523 View Post
                      Take a gander at the Celestial Chorus book. They go over this stuff in detail. True Faith is a neat concept that's under utilized in WoD. Hilariously, Dresden Files is the best example of how to handle it. Don't mess with a holy knight in Dresden Files, they're scary.
                      Agreed. TF as it is now is only useful for mortal characters. For mages it's not very efficient and expensive to boot.

                      As for DF knights, WoD doesn't have the same separation between mortal/supernatural or the unquestionable supremacy of the 'White God'. So, such a character would have to worry about both mundane killers and faithful of the other gods. Unlike DF that just brushes over such matters entirely, WoD admits the history of some very bloody conflicts between old faith mages,various gods and their faithful, monsters themselves being much more 'mortal savvy' and possibility of Void Engineers going all ape on overt 'alien' interference.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Saint Michael View Post
                        Revised or first edition?
                        I'm not sure about 1°, but Revised has a section about True Faith. Including the suggestion to ignore the usual methapysics of Mage and say that Chorister powers (or even all magic) it's True Faith.

                        While rules wise TF it's his own thing, what mages do it's TF in a sense: Being a mage it's all about a Belief that's strong enough to challenge and beat reality. That's why I've never liked mages having the "True Faith Merit" - in my opinion all mages are true believers, and they already have a mechanic for that which it's more flexible and immersive than what the Merit gives you (Focus & magick). TF it's good for Vampire where holding a cross/sacred symbol in front of a vampire to make it go away it's both awesome and all that you want from it. For Mage, where all faiths and the varied kind of miracles that come with them should be represented...it just falls short

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Aleph View Post

                          I'm not sure about 1°, but Revised has a section about True Faith. Including the suggestion to ignore the usual methapysics of Mage and say that Chorister powers (or even all magic) it's True Faith.

                          While rules wise TF it's his own thing, what mages do it's TF in a sense: Being a mage it's all about a Belief that's strong enough to challenge and beat reality. That's why I've never liked mages having the "True Faith Merit" - in my opinion all mages are true believers, and they already have a mechanic for that which it's more flexible and immersive than what the Merit gives you (Focus & magick). TF it's good for Vampire where holding a cross/sacred symbol in front of a vampire to make it go away it's both awesome and all that you want from it. For Mage, where all faiths and the varied kind of miracles that come with them should be represented...it just falls short
                          In my opinion True Faith works well in Mage, since it shows how really powerful belief in a religious figure or ideal can give you a different kind of power which follows different rules. One which is less reliable but potentially more potent, and is more mysterious and rare. Thematically it's neat. But one niggle is this feeling that practically ALL Choristers should have 1 dot in True Faith; if they don't, then that feels weird.

                          True Faith's conditionality is also neat. A Mage can heal anyone with Life, but trying to use True Faith to heal yourself while murdering a bunch of orphans is definitely going to fail (unless your faith is in... Baralgamoth the Child Eater or something like that). A Mage can have a chance encounter with anyone with Entropy, but True Faith lets you find yourself by chance at the side of a friend in need.

                          Personally I think a good change to True Faith would be to have it as conditional bonus Arete. In situations which are appropriate based on your faith you can spend a point of Willpower and add your True Faith rating (it could be a 2x cost background) to your Arete. So TF won't let you heal without Life, but it will let you do it much better than you could otherwise if you're healing for the right reasons.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Warpwind View Post

                            Agreed. TF as it is now is only useful for mortal characters. For mages it's not very efficient and expensive to boot.

                            As for DF knights, WoD doesn't have the same separation between mortal/supernatural or the unquestionable supremacy of the 'White God'. So, such a character would have to worry about both mundane killers and faithful of the other gods. Unlike DF that just brushes over such matters entirely, WoD admits the history of some very bloody conflicts between old faith mages,various gods and their faithful, monsters themselves being much more 'mortal savvy' and possibility of Void Engineers going all ape on overt 'alien' interference.
                            I choose to follow the Dark Ages 20th logic of True Faith. You don't need to pay for it, it gets improved after great tests of faith sorta like Arete, but if you don't play it correctly you lose it.
                            Whenever I let a player have it, they actually play it well since they know the GM will take it away more quickly because they didn't pay anything for it.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by 11twiggins View Post

                              In my opinion True Faith works well in Mage, since it shows how really powerful belief in a religious figure or ideal can give you a different kind of power which follows different rules. One which is less reliable but potentially more potent, and is more mysterious and rare. Thematically it's neat. But one niggle is this feeling that practically ALL Choristers should have 1 dot in True Faith; if they don't, then that feels weird.

                              True Faith's conditionality is also neat. A Mage can heal anyone with Life, but trying to use True Faith to heal yourself while murdering a bunch of orphans is definitely going to fail (unless your faith is in... Baralgamoth the Child Eater or something like that). A Mage can have a chance encounter with anyone with Entropy, but True Faith lets you find yourself by chance at the side of a friend in need.

                              Personally I think a good change to True Faith would be to have it as conditional bonus Arete. In situations which are appropriate based on your faith you can spend a point of Willpower and add your True Faith rating (it could be a 2x cost background) to your Arete. So TF won't let you heal without Life, but it will let you do it much better than you could otherwise if you're healing for the right reasons.

                              However, if you are buying it with EXP then it makes more sense to invest in Arete and Spheres as they provide better effects and are FAR more versatile. I mean with magic you can meet and deal with the religious figures, Hells and Heavens, same with the other effects. I like theoutlander523 take on it better. However, in that case TF would be far more widespread among mages then the books indicate, as most of mystic mages interact with deities and spirits on regular bases and use them in practicies.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X