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Character creation and progression: What is optimal, what's a trap?

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  • #16
    <EDIT: Nevermind, I overderped my difficulty table>
    Last edited by Ambrosia; 04-18-2018, 06:29 AM.


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    • #17
      Originally posted by Heavy Arms View Post
      The only limits on difficulty stacking are that magic can only reduce a difficulty by -3, and the minimum is Difficulty 2 (though the books generally encourage the idea that if you're facing enough of a break to get to what would be Difficulties well below 2 that rolling doesn't really have a point.

      So if you have an aptitude Merit that gives you a -2 difficulty, and you use a spell that gives you a -3 difficulty, you can get a -5 out of it, but if you use a magic tool that is enhanced with more breaks, it wouldn't count because magic is capped at -3. If the game says you get a -2 for something situational... you could get to -7 yeah. It is, indeed, insane. Magic isn't great for a lot of things, but making you awesome by difficult reduction? It's great for that.
      I have Mechanical Aptitude and Hands of Daedalus, which is -4 difficulty when handling mechanical or technical objects. So a Difficulty 9 hyper-tech or technology or craft roll? I can make it Difficulty 3 using Mind 1 (thinking carefully), Data 1 (seeing how it all fits together in the web), Matter 1 (understanding the components to a higher level). It's coincidental, so Arete 3 against Difficulty 4 should give another -1 or -2, pushing it down to Difficulty 2/3/4. And now an extended roll to build an incredibly complex machine is easy. Improving even near-perfect machines is easy. I love Mage.

      Furthermore, HoD means that any mechanical object (a jetpack, an ether canon, a plasma blade, a car) will become a Unique Personalized Item once I've had "a bit of time" to get to know it! So my character is going to horde the stuff Technocrats are carrying! And he has Hyper-Tech at 3, which is described as being the point where you can understand the hyper-tech of other paradigms with different approaches, making it very flexible.

      And this all leads to a lot of difficulty stacking. But what I really like is that this isn't something that is rare.

      You got Do? All normal fighting maneuvers are at -1 difficulty forever with the Well Trained Advantage. And now you can use Magick to push that difficulty down to 2 instead of 3. You got Weapon Mastery? Well now your Do makes you better with a Crossbow, -1 difficulty.

      You got a Sanctum? -2 difficulty to everything and nothing's vulgar inside. Now you can build that portal to hell in peace!

      You've got a Merit which makes Spirits love you and move towards you? And a powerful familiar? Well I guess your 3 dots of Spirit are going to be terrifying. And Fae/Garou blood you say?
      Last edited by 11twiggins; 04-18-2018, 08:04 AM.

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      • #18
        It's important to understand the issue with Flat Costs (Ability Dot is 2 Freebies) vs. Linear Costs (Ability Dot is 2x Current Level in EXP) when thinking about traps for char-gen.

        Traps:

        - Certain values, thanks to the EXP and Freebie systems. So, for example, having an ability at 2 might be a "trap" since it places you in an awkward spot. Going from 1-2 is very cheap. 2-3 is less cheap. So have things at 1 or at 3+. Same could be said for Spheres; 1 or 3.

        - Leaving Arete at 1. It is SO expensive to raise and it is reliant on you understanding certain things. And furthermore it caps EVERYTHING else and also gives you a tiny dice pool for magick.

        - Leaving Avatar at 0. Quintessence is valuable and a good Avatar is a great way of acquiring it.

        - Leaving Willpower at 5. SO many powers which will ruin sleepers won't harm Mages because the difficulty is hiked up (+3 for puppetry and total mind control for example) and Mages tend to have higher Willpower. You absolutely should invest freebies in Willpower; it's 1:1.

        - Leaving your focus-related abilities weak. If you're going to be using reality-hacking, have Computer 3. Hyper-tech should be at 3 if you're using that. Do at 2 (the maximum) for Akashics. Using Art? Why not start at 5, and take the Aptitude merit? Some things are worthy of early investment.

        Great Investments:

        - Anything modifying Difficulty for an important dicepool to your character.

        - Any Background or Merit which brings you stuff that your Spheres complement. Perhaps your Spirit-mage will be surrounded by friendly spirits. Perhaps your VA has a computer embedded inside him thanks to the Enhancement background.

        - True Faith, if you're ready to roleplay it and the ST is happy to use all of the optional benefits.
        Last edited by 11twiggins; 04-18-2018, 08:18 AM.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by 11twiggins View Post
          - Leaving your focus-related abilities weak. If you're going to be using reality-hacking, have Computer 3. Hyper-tech should be at 3 if you're using that. Do at 2 (the maximum) for Akashics. Using Art? Why not start at 5, and take the Aptitude merit? Some things are worthy of early investment.
          I was just going to say this, yes.

          With M20, we have the optional rule for Minimum Abilities when it comes to Magick. How do you expect to "HACK THE PLANET!" if you don't know anything about Computers? How can you justify building sweet gadgets in lab if you don't have dots in Technology, Hypertech, or both? Is it really okay for a character to use Yoga as a Practice, and yet not have Esoterica (Yoga) on her sheet?

          That sort of thing. So look at your character's Focus, and see if any Abilities would be helpful or even required for it. These Abilities should start at 3 dots, since that allows your character to use them to cast rank 3 Sphere Magick. If you're going to use certain Instrument-specific Abilities a lot, or plan to advance Spheres related to them, you might want to use Freebie Points to get them even higher.

          Keep in mind, also, that having Minimum Traits doesn't just apply to Abilities, necessarily. Certain Practices - especially Dominion, Art of Desire, and Hypereconomics - may call for Minimum Backgrounds, as their capacity to effect change may be constrained by such things more than Talents, Skills, and Knowledges. A character who uses Politics or Mass Media as Instruments may need to rely on Influence, Contacts, or Fame. The use of Human Resources may, alternatively, require the character to exert their Retainers, Spies, Allies, Cult, or Resources, since the character needs to be able to rely on people carrying out orders to the letter. Cult might also be good for anyone who employs Group Rites, since it's nice to have a group around to do it (and a character's Focus may require LOTS of people).


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          • #20
            Originally posted by 11twiggins View Post
            You've got a Merit which makes Spirits love you and move towards you? And a powerful familiar? Well I guess your 3 dots of Spirit are going to be terrifying. And Fae/Garou blood you say?
            As it has been said, Spirit it's a Sphere that needs ST attention and investment.

            If you have both, Spirit becomes the "do everything" Sphere. Want to infiltrate in a facility with survewilance technology and don't have Forces, summon a tech-spirit. Want to control someone and don't have Mind, summon a spirit that posseses people. Want to create a magick item and don't have Prime, build a Fetish. If the ST doesn't want to involve the Umbra a lot nor use spirits from obscure Lore (or, better, create new ones since Lore encourages ST to do so), the Sphere it's a pain to use.

            Perhaps it's because we come from Vampire, but Occult get's used a lot in the games I play - want to know something from the supernatural world, you need to have the specific Lore OR Occult. And you always want to know something about something supernatural. More so, it's hard to get this specific information from Spheres - you can imitate "Awareness" or "Alert" with a clever aplication of lvl 1 Spheres (and you can roll without dots because it's a Talent), but gaining actual knowledge it's harder if you don't invest into them.

            It's very useful to have some combat skills if you expect combat, even in a build that isn't geraed towards it you would want to survive combat.

            Part of that it's covered with Athletics (dodge), but if you want to cause damage (which it's very likely) it's usually easier to enhance mundane weapons and skills with magick than to engineer a Coincidental hazard that matches the situation, both in Sphere dots (enhance something it's usually 2, generate a new phenomena it's usually 3) and because you won't need to pay attention and immagine a new way to create harm without becoming Vulgar .

            Weapons are better than your fists if you ain't going to invest into Do or Martial Arts, and since these supersed Brawl that Talent may be a bit of a trap.

            About Time 2:

            In an Investigation chronicle, Time 2 (combined with a few other Spheres) can be very powerful.​​ A Talisman with Postcognition it's a good investment for any would be investigator (You look at the crime scene and you can know what happened - crime solved), but the potential of the Sphere it's hard to duplicate with a single Talisman because you need to pair it with others in order to do more than look the past in a place at a given time.

            For instance: look at somebody with Time 2/Life 3 and you can see what was he doing - and since this it's Time and not Mind, what the subject believes about the facthas no importance (the enemy will need to put a Time barrier locked in the subject with Life to counter this). With Matter you can trace the full history of an object. Combine it with Prime 1 and look for magical traces in the past. With Mind and read the echos of past toughts in a place. Entropy 1 helps if you don't know when to look. "Postcognition" it's more than a single effect, it's a cascade of potential ways to uncover clues when you search about stuff that already happened.

            Generally past-sight it's rather straightfoward and gets a pass. Looking at the future, on the other had, can be equally potent, but many ST prefer to make future sight extremely imprecise or symbolic regardless of the Paradigm involved (sometimes on the grounds that "they" can't predict the future) - in my opinion a player that bought Time 2 has every right to use it at it's maximun potential. To purposely obscure the sight on the grounds that the ST doesn't want to be wrong about stuff (or, more likely, to reveal his current plans for NpC) it's a cheap shot - it's better to just forbidde it if you think you can't handle players with that much information.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Aleph View Post
              About Time 2:

              In an Investigation chronicle, Time 2 (combined with a few other Spheres) can be very powerful.​​ A Talisman with Postcognition it's a good investment for any would be investigator (You look at the crime scene and you can know what happened - crime solved), but the potential of the Sphere it's hard to duplicate with a single Talisman because you need to pair it with others in order to do more than look the past in a place at a given time.

              For instance: look at somebody with Time 2/Life 3 and you can see what was he doing - and since this it's Time and not Mind, what the subject believes about the facthas no importance (the enemy will need to put a Time barrier locked in the subject with Life to counter this). With Matter you can trace the full history of an object. Combine it with Prime 1 and look for magical traces in the past. With Mind and read the echos of past toughts in a place. Entropy 1 helps if you don't know when to look. "Postcognition" it's more than a single effect, it's a cascade of potential ways to uncover clues when you search about stuff that already happened.
              M20 takes a dim view on Time 2, IMO. It says that the power should only reveal what the ST wants to reveal, regardless of the exact nature of the situation. Use it on a computer to find out who broke into your account and sent some emails? You get fingertaps and information on what they entered into the system while they were using it. Use it to predict your future? Prepare for something as vague/certain as the ST likes, and it might not even be good.

              So Time 2 is a very useful plot device! But I don't think it should be taken as a reason to take Time. Time 1 is useful since it can justify difficulty reductions for anything where timing is important. Time 3 is great for vulgar but powerful stuff like extra actions. Time 2 is "neat but unreliable".

              If your ST lets you simply rewind your senses with Time 2, see perfectly into the past, then it's an incredible plot-solver. In fact, probably too good. If not it's a decent way of getting hints.

              And naturally when mixed with other Spheres it can be more useful. With Correspondence 1 and Mind 1 you can search for certain things over a huge area, but add Time 2 and you can check into the past and future as part of your search. Make yourself a "Map out Vampire's Havens" rote if you REALLY want to, though it would take weeks and weeks of processing. Probably easiest as a VA, since you can set that effect running on a computer (or a few computers with different parts of the city) and ignore it.
              Last edited by 11twiggins; 04-18-2018, 12:26 PM.

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              • #22
                M20 takes a dim view on Time 2, IMO. It says that the power should only reveal what the ST wants to reveal, regardless of the exact nature of the situation. Use it on a computer to find out who broke into your account and sent some emails? You get fingertaps and information on what they entered into the system while they were using it. Use it to predict your future? Prepare for something as vague/certain as the ST likes, and it might not even be good.

                So Time 2 is a very useful plot device! But I don't think it should be taken as a reason to take Time.
                That's worse than unreliable, that's a power that exists for the sole benefit of the ST. It makes an already niche, if potent, Sphere level a "follow the plot sphere level". It's unfair that players can't beneffit from it unless the ST wants because they need to buy it - imagine if Dominate only worked when the ST deems than the plot would beneffit from you controling someone. And really, if ST wants to give me information lack of Time 2 won't impede that.
                I would rather eliminate Time 2 entirely than reducing a Sphere level to a plot device.

                Time 1 is useful since it can justify difficulty reductions for anything where timing is important. Time 3 is great for vulgar but powerful stuff like extra actions. Time 2 is "neat but unreliable".
                Time 2 could easily be the basis to give a difficulty reduction in a series of related or unrelated actions "because you already predicted that". There's one or two rotes that use Time to provide similar effects with more complex mechanics. Foresight can equal forearmed. But that's not enough for a Sphere Level to be worth it's xp.

                With Correspondence 1 and Mind 1 you can search for certain things over a huge area
                It's my understanding that you need Correspondence 3, Filter All Space, to search several things on a huge area. Corr 1 it's good to see the position of close stuff, a sort of "blindsight" that's much better than mundane sight, Corr 2 can find one thing or one place by scrying far places, Corr 3 allows to map a huge area and find specific stuff (like traps, using Matter/Mind, or the path someone usually takes with Time 2/Spheres to find someone)
                Last edited by Aleph; 04-18-2018, 02:14 PM.

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                • #23
                  Correspondence 1 is about a city block in range. Also, your Correspondence level limits your use of other spheres--you cannot use another sphere's effects at greater level than your Correspondence level.

                  As for M20, a lot of the rules make it more of a pain to adjudicate magick use. I go with what the intent is and consider an Ability a way to ask good questions. Any mage may want to get information off someone's computer. A mage who has 3 dots in Computer is going to know a lot more about where on the computer that is stored and how to avoid getting garbage information. Likewise, the well-skilled craftsman rule can be a neat option, but with experience points being so scarce in Mage, it is sometimes just easier to go with broad skills.

                  So, for my game, if your mage can imagine it, they can do it if the dice are kind and it's within paradigm. If your mage knows little behind what they desire to do in a subject area, it's going to be a lot more difficult to get good information. Rather than well-skilled craftsman, I assume abilities are more broad than in Mage 1e and when a skill is as broad as Crafts or Science, the chosen specialty is the one your character is best at.

                  As for Time, in any RPG the use of precognition and postcognition should never be perfect and should be useful. So, Time 2 isn't going to tell you exactly what happened, but it will show a possible future. If you combine Time 2 with Entropy 2, you are seeing many possible futures and have a good idea what will pass. I see this from a viewpoint without all the nuance though--you may see what happened or what is going to happen but you might need some ability rolls to get all the contextual clues. In other words, if you go back and see who shot JFK, you won't necessarily understand it all at once. If you predict the winner of the next horse race, you might not see why that horse ran so well.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Aleph View Post

                    That's worse than unreliable, that's a power that exists for the sole benefit of the ST. It makes an already niche, if potent, Sphere level a "follow the plot sphere level". It's unfair that players can't beneffit from it unless the ST wants because they need to buy it - imagine if Dominate only worked when the ST deems than the plot would beneffit from you controling someone. And really, if ST wants to give me information lack of Time 2 won't impede that.
                    I would rather eliminate Time 2 entirely than reducing a Sphere level to a plot device.



                    Time 2 could easily be the basis to give a difficulty reduction in a series of related or unrelated actions "because you already predicted that". There's one or two rotes that use Time to provide similar effects with more complex mechanics. Foresight can equal forearmed. But that's not enough for a Sphere Level to be worth it's xp.


                    It's my understanding that you need Correspondence 3, Filter All Space, to search several things on a huge area. Corr 1 it's good to see the position of close stuff, a sort of "blindsight" that's much better than mundane sight, Corr 2 can find one thing or one place by scrying far places, Corr 3 allows to map a huge area and find specific stuff (like traps, using Matter/Mind, or the path someone usually takes with Time 2/Spheres to find someone)
                    Yeah, agreed. That's why I wouldn't take Time unless I was making a Mage who was all about Time.

                    I mean that's not all that Time 1 and 2 let you do, together, but I agree with you overall. It feels like Time gives the least bang for its buck, and all of the cool stuff from Time is vulgar when it counts.

                    Correspondence 1 gives you a sense of how far things are from eachother. Combined with Mind 1, which lets you sense a mind quite simply, you can expand your senses over a city block to sense the location of every mind relative to you and map it out. Now that's too much information! But to do that you can just use another coincidental Mind 1 effect, where you strengthen your ability to handle information and calculate quickly. If your paradigm is technical or subtle then it will be Coincidental, and you'll only need a few successes. Now if you want to search out a specific type of mind that may demand a higher level of Mind (picking out Black Suits, Vampires, Mages) as that goes beyond sensing that a mind is present, and what is right on the surface of it. But with Mind 1 / Correspondence 1 a host could pick out every angry/horny/sad/lonely/scared person in a room, and with Mind 1 / Correspondence 1 a VA could pick out the exact location of every person (with a brain, at least one that isn't hidden) within a city block. It would just be harder compared to doing the same thing with more powerful Mind (filtering down to certain types of people immediately reduces the amount you need to process) or Correspondence (I think higher levels would make this easier but I'm not sure how).

                    With that said I'm happy to be corrected if I've misinterpreted anything!

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                    • #25
                      Time 1 is pretty good mixed with other spheres, it allows extra precision with effects and gives you a greater deal of control as to when your effects end.

                      You can make portals which change location at different times, wonders that work only work during the equinox, and allows our to better measure things like time of death, exact times for when prophecies will take place with Entropy, someone’s age, the time certain injuries started, and how long new life patterns like bacteria or plants may have been growing with Life, the age of a node, and the cycle of a wellspring with Prime, the time a Spirit has spent incorporeal, the schedule of a shallowing with Spirit, allowing you to see the order thoughts were had, and when certain memories were formed with Mind, or how old objects are with Matter.

                      Anything which pulls up a clock and measures time can be applied to the other spheres, providing information otherwise impossible to determine.


                      Keepers of the Wyck: A Chronicle I'm running FINALE: Chapter 39: Green Fairy

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by baakyocalder View Post
                        As for Time, in any RPG the use of precognition and postcognition should never be perfect and should be useful. So, Time 2 isn't going to tell you exactly what happened, but it will show a possible future. If you combine Time 2 with Entropy 2, you are seeing many possible futures and have a good idea what will pass. I see this from a viewpoint without all the nuance though--you may see what happened or what is going to happen but you might need some ability rolls to get all the contextual clues. In other words, if you go back and see who shot JFK, you won't necessarily understand it all at once. If you predict the winner of the next horse race, you might not see why that horse ran so well.
                        Precognition and postcognition have different issues:

                        If you see the future, of course you aren't going to see the future perfectly because ST can't predict players actions. Caine can't predict the future that well. To ask such intel it's a good way to troll any ST if he makes the mistake of giving it. However, competent ST usually has something planned if players don't act - playing Time 2 with good faith should reveal some of this (with imperfections being a result of the imperfections of the question itself or the method used to gather the information, and never an effort to impair player sucess). After that, you can easily say that circumnstances changed as a consequence of character acting towards that prediction, the future it's always changing, the very act of predicting the future changes it, butterfly effect, yadayada.

                        On the other hand the past "is" written. ST has complete control of the past unless and until a player get's to Time 5 (a whole different can of worms). There's no reason whatosever to not show an Etherite exactly what happened when JFK was shoot if the Instrument used would logically provide such information (but of course, maybe the ST chooses to cover it with a black veil to respect sensibilities?, because it's polemic?. Anyhow, my point it's that past sight it's easier to handle). If a roll it's needed or the information isn't perfect, it should be for a reason the player can understand

                        Obscuring postcognition all the time, it's like not allowing mages to use teleportation to escape a cell because mortals can't possibly proff a cell against that. So what if a supernatural detective can perfectly discover what happened behind non-magical crimes?, supernatural creatures can perfectly foil a lot of plans - that's why they're fearsome. Obscuring or even banning precognition (perhaps replace it with bonuses, like Demon does?) , on the other hand, it's more sensible, but let's do it in good faith. Because it's impossibe, even for the ST, to predict the future. Not because "magick it's going to reveal my secrets". From that point to negating any Spheres from provinding reliable information about ST "secrets" there's a very small step.
                        Last edited by Aleph; 04-18-2018, 04:13 PM.

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                        • #27
                          Also, how well your Mage is at postcongition depends on how the mage does it. Is it an Ecstatic relying on visions that might be hazy, or more symbolic than actually literal? That's a good way to spice up the postcongition process with small puzzles and things to make sense of, as an ST, instead of a literal picture.

                          Is it an Etherite, using an Ether-disruption-calculator to reconstruct the motions of the Ether in the room in the past? They might get a sort of Daredevilish echo-location view of the room of the past - good enough to conclude what happened, but possibly not good enough to make out important details - what was the color of the clothes and skin of the person who was there? Is the detail of their face fine-grained enough? Was there something burning that might not show up on the this transtemporal echolocator? To interpret sound waves that happened back then might need an enhancement to the Ether-disruption-calculator that the Etherite still might need to devise...

                          I highly encourage STs to actually make looking into the past an exciting thing that leads on a plot to actually get a clear image, instead of just serving it outright, if it is viable with the Mage's paradigm and tools. Not to avoid the image, but making it more fun and creative to get there.

                          Sometimes it's good to look at roleplaying sessions like Episodes in a series. On tonights episode! Will Detective Justin Time manage to glimpse into the past of this gruesome place, before the killer can escape? STAY TUNED.
                          Last edited by Ambrosia; 04-18-2018, 06:22 PM.


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                          • #28
                            The past is colored by our interpretations of it. So, if you see JFK's death from one viewpoint, you may not see the whole picture.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Aleph View Post

                              Precognition and postcognition have different issues:

                              If you see the future, of course you aren't going to see the future perfectly because ST can't predict players actions. Caine can't predict the future that well. To ask such intel it's a good way to troll any ST if he makes the mistake of giving it. However, competent ST usually has something planned if players don't act - playing Time 2 with good faith should reveal some of this (with imperfections being a result of the imperfections of the question itself or the method used to gather the information, and never an effort to impair player sucess). After that, you can easily say that circumnstances changed as a consequence of character acting towards that prediction, the future it's always changing, the very act of predicting the future changes it, butterfly effect, yadayada.

                              On the other hand the past &quot;is&quot; written. ST has complete control of the past unless and until a player get's to Time 5 (a whole different can of worms). There's no reason whatosever to not show an Etherite exactly what happened when JFK was shoot if the Instrument used would logically provide such information (but of course, maybe the ST chooses to cover it with a black veil to respect sensibilities?, because it's polemic?. Anyhow, my point it's that past sight it's easier to handle). If a roll it's needed or the information isn't perfect,https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Qy4EIvvVj4&quot;] it should be for a reason the player can understand [/URL]

                              Obscuring postcognition all the time, it's like not allowing mages to use teleportation to escape a cell because mortals can't possibly proff a cell against that. So what if a supernatural detective can perfectly discover what happened behind non-magical crimes?, supernatural creatures can perfectly foil a lot of plans - that's why they're fearsome. Obscuring or even banning precognition (perhaps replace it with bonuses, like Demon does?) , on the other hand, it's more sensible, but let's do it in good faith. Because it's impossibe, even for the ST, to predict the future. Not because &quot;magick it's going to reveal my secrets&quot;. From that point to negating any Spheres from provinding reliable information about ST &quot;secrets&quot; there's a very small step.
                              I’d say that even the past is murky and debatable. Sleepers define reality, and so the past is exactly how the sleepers shape it. Time magic can be used to see a form of truth, but just as we have multiple paths going forward, the past is filled with multiple paths that converge here, and the more the sleepers misremembered the past, the greater the fog of uncertainty becomes.

                              This makes looking into the past earlier than living memory much more difficult, and just as difficult as forward sight, and just as prone to error.


                              Keepers of the Wyck: A Chronicle I'm running FINALE: Chapter 39: Green Fairy

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by baakyocalder View Post
                                The past is colored by our interpretations of it. So, if you see JFK's death from one viewpoint, you may not see the whole picture.
                                Well, that's exactly the kind of shit I wouldn't want to eat.

                                That I saw some dude killing JFK and I don't know who the fuck it's that random dude I can accept - that's even a plot point (to discover the identity of the dude). That my paradigm uses oracular magick that's notoriously symbolic I can accept (but the symbolim has to mean something and an Enigmas roll should provide all the info I need if I, the player, am not smart enough to "get it"). That the Technocracy obscured the fact I can accept (barely, but Time 2 does that, it's in the contract). I also can accept the ST not wanting to discuss and dwell in what my character saw to not hurt sensibilities.

                                But I can't accept "well, you receive information, but it ain't very informative". If an imperfection leads to a plot point, all the better, but vague information more often than not leads to inactivity. I can't interpret it, I can't act on the info, and then everyone forgets about it, it's true meaning lost in some ST papers.

                                Originally posted by Saikou
                                I’d say that even the past is murky and debatable. Sleepers define reality, and so the past is exactly how the sleepers shape it. Time magic can be used to see a form of truth, but just as we have multiple paths going forward, the past is filled with multiple paths that converge here, and the more the sleepers misremembered the past, the greater the fog of uncertainty becomes.

                                This makes looking into the past earlier than living memory much more difficult, and just as difficult as forward sight, and just as prone to error.
                                Not from the perspective I was using. All of humanity it's under ST control. Only the PC introduce a random element
                                Last edited by Aleph; 04-18-2018, 04:28 PM.

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