Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Questions on Phylacteries

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Questions on Phylacteries

    - Without a Phylactery you are a Sleeper. Does this mean you act as a Sleeper Witness without it?

    - If a Mage character with a Phylactery loses their body, can they reasonably expect to eek out an existence possessing cultists / retainers / the comatose / clones? I mean in a sense of difficulty, and the power level required to do so reliably.

    - Can a Phylactery exist in its own right? Traditionally in MtA they are created by investing the Avatar of a Mage inside of a certain item, along with some of their essence and part of their mind. They are bound to it. But could Magick craft an object which simply holds an accessible Avatar? A Mjolnir-like object where "worthy" (naturally depending on the avatar; gods help the fool who is deemed worthy of a fallen avatar) individuals who hold it may act as Mages for as long as they possess it. The object might have a bloodied history being pursued by occultists and sorcerers and Mages for its power. Such an Avatar could act as an antagonist. How many proxies does the Evil Belt of Doom need to go through before we figure out that it is the mastermind of unfolding events?

    - Can a Mage have multiple Phylacteries? Perhaps 7 of them... (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buJPwD5nW1g). So each Phylactery would hold a portion of the Mage's Avatar, would be the idea. My gut instinct is that this falls into the realm of Archspheres, but I'm curious.

    - If a Mage's Phylactery is destroyed, they lose the ability to use magick. However, Avatars reincarnate. If they got lucky and their Avatar returned to the mortal plane within their lifetime, would they still be connected to it? Would they be able to recover it?

  • #2
    I think they would be like a sorcerer in terms of counting as a witness, as in they wouldn’t.

    Depends on what spheres they have, and what enchantments they had placed on their phylactert. Nothing’s comes to the unprepared.

    Sure, but I imagine it would require being a master of both Spirit and Prime, and may be really messy to pull off.

    If you cut your avatar in half, I don’t think that’s going to do much for your ability to perform magic. Also you’d probably need to carry them all around with you to be able to do anything unimpeded. So I file this under “possible but ill advised”.

    I’d say the avatar would reincarnate in a new born baby if it returned to the mortal plane. In theory it would certainly be possible with the right spheres to conduct a modified gilgul rite to pull it out and return it to yourself... but how exactly are you going to do that? You’d need outside help for such a feat as magic is now beyond you, and that essentially means finding people willing to help you and capable of doing it. And the chances are such a service will not come cheap.
    Also, how are you going to know it’s your avatar? And what chance do you even have of finding it? For all you know they are going to reincarnate 12 years from now inside a baby born at the southern tip of Chile.


    Keepers of the Wyck: A Chronicle I'm running FINALE: Chapter 39: Green Fairy

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by 11twiggins
      - Can a Mage have multiple Phylacteries? Perhaps 7 of them... (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buJPwD5nW1g). So each Phylactery would hold a portion of the Mage's Avatar, would be the idea. My gut instinct is that this falls into the realm of Archspheres, but I'm curious.
      Well, there's a...Merit?...that implies your avatar it's cut in pieces and that you can rejoin the pieces to get a higher Avatar rating (supposedly one of the few ways to increase one's Avatar after char gen).

      So I would use that Merit as a template for that. I think that Spirit 5, being enough to shatter an avatar should be enough to cut a piece of it. Add Prime 5, maybe Entropy 5, to manipulate the conceptual "self" of that shard and place it into the thing. Don't Botch.

      However, the merit implies your mage wants to join his pieces back together. So there isn't a mechanical benefit into making a horcrux...unless you are a Nephandi, or other horrid criminal that was discovered and can expect to be busted and Gilguled. Then cutting part of your Avatar and putting it into something may allow to regain your magick after the fact (though you still need to arrange your survival / resurrection).

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Aleph View Post

        Well, there's a...Merit?...that implies your avatar it's cut in pieces and that you can rejoin the pieces to get a higher Avatar rating (supposedly one of the few ways to increase one's Avatar after char gen).

        So I would use that Merit as a template for that. I think that Spirit 5, being enough to shatter an avatar should be enough to cut a piece of it. Add Prime 5, maybe Entropy 5, to manipulate the conceptual "self" of that shard and place it into the thing. Don't Botch.

        However, the merit implies your mage wants to join his pieces back together. So there isn't a mechanical benefit into making a horcrux...unless you are a Nephandi, or other horrid criminal that was discovered and can expect to be busted and Gilguled. Then cutting part of your Avatar and putting it into something may allow to regain your magick after the fact (though you still need to arrange your survival / resurrection).
        Yeah the Shattered Avatar Merit (?) is such a piss-poor idea.

        "You get Avatar 1, and there are 4 pieces of Avatar our there you can claim."

        "Oh, okay. How much will that cost me?"

        "5 freebies."

        "..."

        "What?"

        "Couldn't I just... take 5 dots in Avatar? For 5 freebies total? Rather than spend 6 freebies to have, essentially, 1 dot in Avatar."

        Comment


        • #5
          I swear that should be a flaw.


          Keepers of the Wyck: A Chronicle I'm running FINALE: Chapter 39: Green Fairy

          Comment


          • #6
            I could see it as a Merit if you had to pay 1pt instead of 5. As 5pt Merit it's nonsense.

            I like the idea of being a highlander-like character chasing for Avatar pieces, and certainly increasing Avatar to potentially 5 it's good if you have it at low levels. But since you have to spend 5 pts on the "Merit", it's worse than useless. And now you may have people hunting your Avatar-shard. That's so not a Merit

            Before BoS it was often theorized than that Merit was the only way to get your Avatar rating above 5 (the clause saying that it can only increase up to 5 it's new). That's still of dubious use (because there's limits to what you can get spending Quint), but was better than the new version.

            Still, as a post char-gen action, I think that's how a shattered but still functional avatar should work.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Aleph View Post
              Before BoS it was often theorized than that Merit was the only way to get your Avatar rating above 5 (the clause saying that it can only increase up to 5 it's new). That's still of dubious use (because there's limits to what you can get spending Quint), but was better than the new version.
              ^ That, pretty much. It made total sense as an expensive merit, if it was a story hook to be able to get your avatar above 5. Without that giving you an advantage - you know, a character MERIT - it is useless as written right now. I'd ignore the Avatar 5 limit on it.


              cWoD Dice Probability Chart ||| cWoD Dice Statistics Calculator ||| cWoD Alternative Armor System
              cWoD Alternative Damage Roll System ||| My explanation of cWoD Damage Levels ||| 'Intersting' Strength Attribute Stuff
              EXPLOSIVE cWoD STUFF!

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Saikou View Post
                I swear that should be a flaw.
                Honestly agreed. It could easily be rejigged as one.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Aleph View Post
                  I could see it as a Merit if you had to pay 1pt instead of 5. As 5pt Merit it's nonsense.

                  I like the idea of being a highlander-like character chasing for Avatar pieces, and certainly increasing Avatar to potentially 5 it's good if you have it at low levels. But since you have to spend 5 pts on the "Merit", it's worse than useless. And now you may have people hunting your Avatar-shard. That's so not a Merit

                  Before BoS it was often theorized than that Merit was the only way to get your Avatar rating above 5 (the clause saying that it can only increase up to 5 it's new). That's still of dubious use (because there's limits to what you can get spending Quint), but was better than the new version.

                  Still, as a post char-gen action, I think that's how a shattered but still functional avatar should work.
                  You can only spend 3 Quintessence on a spell normally, yes (with the exception of a case where the difficulty is hiked up, meaning that it takes more than 3 to get to the -3 difficulty maximum), but Avatar is still very useful.

                  The Quint linked to your Avatar rating is safe. It can't be removed with Magick, short of directly attacking your pattern. It 100% belongs to you. Furthermore, the more powerful your Avatar is, the greater the vicious drive that pushes you to Seek and learn and grow. This is a story point, but important. An Avatar at 6+ would make you seem powerful, even if you weren't all that powerful, to someone with Spirit and Prime.

                  And as a very minor point, Gilgul needs successes equal to your Arete + Avatar + Willpower, so raising your Avatar above 5 could be useful in that very specific scenario.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Shattered avatar merit is not powerful in the "catch them all fragments" part.
                    it is powerful when you find the fragments in sleepers, you awaken them, and then you are linked to them at soul level.
                    Which means you are a perfect team if you work with them. You can split the learning of the sphere between you, and once one has mind 4, everyone will be synchronized.


                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by RandyRando View Post
                      Shattered avatar merit is not powerful in the "catch them all fragments" part.
                      it is powerful when you find the fragments in sleepers, you awaken them, and then you are linked to them at soul level.
                      Which means you are a perfect team if you work with them. You can split the learning of the sphere between you, and once one has mind 4, everyone will be synchronized.

                      That falls outside of the limits of the merit however. Twin Souls gives the sort of effect you're talking about.

                      Shattered Avatar has a very "there can only be one" vibe.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Ho . I thought there were the same merit. Thats so sad and useless then..

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by 11twiggins View Post

                          Yeah the Shattered Avatar Merit (?) is such a piss-poor idea.

                          "You get Avatar 1, and there are 4 pieces of Avatar our there you can claim."

                          "Oh, okay. How much will that cost me?"

                          "5 freebies."

                          "..."

                          "What?"

                          "Couldn't I just... take 5 dots in Avatar? For 5 freebies total? Rather than spend 6 freebies to have, essentially, 1 dot in Avatar."
                          Shattered avatar allows you to potentially have an avatar of more than 5 dots. That's why it is so costly. Now what KIND of avatar that is, I have no idea.
                          Last edited by Lateral.Psychotropy; 04-26-2018, 09:08 PM. Reason: spelling

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by 11twiggins View Post
                            You can only spend 3 Quintessence on a spell normally, yes (with the exception of a case where the difficulty is hiked up, meaning that it takes more than 3 to get to the -3 difficulty maximum),
                            I thought so until recently, too, but you actually, literally can only spend 3 Quint total to reduce difficulty, even if the difficulty is above base :|

                            Originally posted by Lateral.Psychotropy View Post
                            Shattered avatar allows you to potentially have an avatar of more than 5 dots. That's why it is so costly. Now what KIND of avatar that is, I have no idea.
                            Not in M20. It is limited to getting a max of 5 *after* collecting all the shards. Which is why it doesn't make sense as a merit in that edition, given that it costs as much as getting Avatar 5 in the first place. It should either be a flaw (And require Avatar 1), OR that limitation should be dropped. Quote from the Book Of Secrets:

                            No matter how many
                            pieces are involved, however, the
                            Avatar Background maxes out at
                            5 dots. Although this Merit allows you to
                            raise your Trait’s rating, it does not allow
                            you to raise it above that level.
                            Last edited by Ambrosia; 04-27-2018, 01:36 AM.


                            cWoD Dice Probability Chart ||| cWoD Dice Statistics Calculator ||| cWoD Alternative Armor System
                            cWoD Alternative Damage Roll System ||| My explanation of cWoD Damage Levels ||| 'Intersting' Strength Attribute Stuff
                            EXPLOSIVE cWoD STUFF!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Ambrosia View Post
                              I thought so until recently, too, but you actually, literally can only spend 3 Quint total to reduce difficulty, even if the difficulty is above base :|
                              Was that changed from Revised? Because the way I remember it working was as much Quintessence as Avatar could be used to reduce difficulty of a roll, but the max negative modifier overall could on be -3 from base difficulty.

                              This means, if you had enough Quintessence, and a high avatar, you could pump in 5 points, lower it to -3 and keep it there until other things raised beyond a few points.

                              Example, base diff is 7, you pump five points in to make it 4. You fail the roll, it stays at 4, you fail again, it’s still at 4, you fail a third time, and now it goes up to 5.


                              Keepers of the Wyck: A Chronicle I'm running FINALE: Chapter 39: Green Fairy

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X