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  • Correspondence In Combat

    I am very new to WoD and just finished my first session with a group of friends. I'm still trying to grasp everything you can do in the game. I currently have Rank 2 Correspondence with no other spheres. I was wondering if it had any combat oriented uses like making hitting someone easier and what sphere rank it would take.

  • #2
    Originally posted by Donavan View Post
    I currently have Rank 2 Correspondence with no other spheres.
    Welcome!

    Humh. My first question would be about how you have Correspondence 2, but no other spheres. That certainly isn't standard Mage character generation rules.

    However, having Correspondence 2 alone makes things somewhat limited. What you *can* do with Correspondence 2 is extend your senses to other locations - see enemies in the next room, prevent your group to be seen with the same use of the sphere by thickening space against that magickal scrying effect. You can grasp whole (small) patterns from afrar (around the size of a cat or so), so in combat you could try to snatch away somebody's weapon from safe distance,

    But that's nearly about it. Creativge use would of course be to do the reverse - not taking a small object from a location, but putting it there. Like, say, a live grenade. Ahem.
    However, this is about the limit of Corespondence 2 on its own - its main excellent use at that level is for being combined with other effects to enable you to do them remotely.

    ...I am really wondering still, though, how you only have two sphere points in total.
    Last edited by Ambrosia; 05-07-2018, 09:21 AM.


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    • #3
      Having only 2 dots in one sphere is very strange creation rules, usually you start with 6 to spread around.

      For combat, you can use mundane stats to be pretty effective, no everything has to be fireballs and magic portals. Sometimes punching dudes and bullets are all you need.


      Keepers of the Wyck: A Chronicle I'm running FINALE: Chapter 39: Green Fairy

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      • #4
        With Correspondence 1 your character can have a superior awareness ( which can be vision or some other way of sensing or knowing ) of what is around her or him. In regards to using this in combat - you could have an Effect that gives a 360 degrees vision (or a 180 degrees vision, or a look to the right and left at the same time etc. ) for an amount of time.
        Adding other Spheres to this Correspondence 1 Effect allows to gather more information, and/or to gather information more reliably.
        Last edited by Muad'Dib; 05-07-2018, 07:29 AM.

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        • #5
          M20 p. 514:
          On its own, Correspondence allows the mage to reach across distances, even to places she cannot see or touch. At Rank 2 or higher, she can grasp items and work with them from a distance. To manipulate other objects or beings in ways other than physical contact, however, that mage must combine Correspondence with another Sphere – typically a Pattern Sphere (Forces, Life, or Matter).

          By RAW you can punch someone from a distance, eject the magazine from their gun, or pull the pin of a grenade. Teleporting needs the relevant pattern sphere.
          This used to be different in revised.

          For defense use the slipstream effect:
          HDYDT p.68:
          SlipstreamWarping the elements of light, distance or perception, the mage simply appears to be a few hairs away from where she actually is. Story-wise, this trick allows an Awakened combatant to avoid her opponent’s attacks. Game-wise, it employs either Correspondence 1 or 2 (to dodge by micrometers, or to appear slightly elsewhere); Entropy 2 (to control the chances of the blow hitting her); Forces 2 (to bend light or gravity just enough to get the attacker to miss); or Time 1 (to calculate the microsecond of impact, and thus avoid it). The Arete roll adds +1 to the opponent’s difficulty for each success rolled; by putting extra successes into Duration, the mage could make this “slipstream” last for several turns. (See Duration, Chapter Ten, p. 538.) So long as the mage doesn’t overdo it, this Effect remains coincidental. To observers and opponents, it simply looks as though the mage is exceptionally good at dodging… or the attacker is unusually bad at hitting his antagonist.


          So, this Zen Master walks up to a hot dog stand and says: "Make me one with everything!"

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          • #6
            If I had to guess, I'd assume they had only 2 dots because the game literally started from the Awakening. Their characters haven't gotten a chance to learn 6 dots yet.

            On topic, Correspondence 1 gives the character an understanding of positions and distances in their immediate environment. All without actually needing to see in the traditional sense. A character should easily be able to garner difficulty reductions on their combat rolls, as they know precisely where their targets are and where they're coming from. Makes things like aiming a gun especially easy, since they don't need to aim down sights. They already know where their gun needs to be pointed for it to be on target.

            Correspondence 2, meanwhile, allows one to teleport small objects. A character could reach into their jacket or pockets, and remove any sort of small weapons or tools they could require. So long as it's plausible they could have been carrying it, the Effect is coincidental (well, you'd also need to teleport items FROM a place where no average observer could see them disappear, like a closed box or desk drawer).

            I'm just imagining a character assaulting folks with unlimited throwing knives. It's great.


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            • #7
              Originally posted by Nonsense View Post
              M20 p. 514:
              On its own, Correspondence allows the mage to reach across distances, even to places she cannot see or touch. At Rank 2 or higher, she can grasp items and work with them from a distance. To manipulate other objects or beings in ways other than physical contact, however, that mage must combine Correspondence with another Sphere – typically a Pattern Sphere (Forces, Life, or Matter).

              By RAW you can punch someone from a distance, eject the magazine from their gun, or pull the pin of a grenade. Teleporting needs the relevant pattern sphere.
              This used to be different in revised.
              Does "touching across distances" also include punching? This is an important question.

              Also, teleporting needing Matter is only sometimes stated in M20. Because M20 is wildly inconsistent. I recall Brucato being asked about this, and stating that Pattern Spheres are only needed if you're trying to teleport PART of a pattern, like the gunpowder from a bullet or the heart from a person's chest. If you're teleporting the WHOLE pattern, you only need Correspondence.


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              • #8
                Originally posted by Bluecho View Post
                Does "touching across distances" also include punching? This is an important question.

                Also, teleporting needing Matter is only sometimes stated in M20. Because M20 is wildly inconsistent. I recall Brucato being asked about this, and stating that Pattern Spheres are only needed if you're trying to teleport PART of a pattern, like the gunpowder from a bullet or the heart from a person's chest. If you're teleporting the WHOLE pattern, you only need Correspondence.
                [[Insert argument about what even counts as part vs whole here]]


                Keepers of the Wyck: A Chronicle I'm running FINALE: Chapter 39: Green Fairy

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                • #9
                  I should clarify we aren't doing M20. We are using Ascension because thats the book everyone had.

                  "usually you start with 6 to spread around." I must have missed this. Do you start with 6 spheres? I was under the impression you started with 1 level in your speciality sphere then had to 'purchase' the rest.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Donavan View Post
                    I should clarify we aren't doing M20. We are using Ascension because thats the book everyone had.

                    "usually you start with 6 to spread around." I must have missed this. Do you start with 6 spheres? I was under the impression you started with 1 level in your speciality sphere then had to 'purchase' the rest.
                    No, you start with 6 sphere dots, and at least one of the dots has to be in your specialty sphere. Also remember that any sphere's max level is capped by your Arete, which is capped at a max of 3 at chargen, and requires investing freebie points to get there from Arete 1..which admittedly are the best bang for the buck investment there is, unless you want to play a lower Arete mage on purpose. I really suggest Arete 3 for a first time player.
                    Sooo...yeeah, it might be time to hit character generation again to reclaim the points you spent on that second dot, and consider the above
                    Last edited by Ambrosia; 05-07-2018, 12:01 PM.


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                    >> cWoD Alternative Damage Roll System | | >> My explanation of cWoD Damage Levels | | >> 'Intersting' Strength Attribute Stuff

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                    • #11
                      Correspondence 2 with 1 dot in any other sphere means you can sense that sphere at any one location, even remotely. With Correspondence 2 and Life 1, for example, you can see when a particular foe is coming. With Correspondence 2 and Forces 1, you see the cruise missile coming. With Correspondence 2 and Time 1, you don't know exactly when to dodge but you can time it pretty good.

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                      • #12
                        Can someone point me to the page that says you start with six? I am MORE than happy to add a few extra spheres but I know my ST will want to know where it came from when I bring this to him.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Donavan View Post
                          Can someone point me to the page that says you start with six? I am MORE than happy to add a few extra spheres but I know my ST will want to know where it came from when I bring this to him.
                          Page 87:
                          "Choose Spheres (5, plus Tradition specialty)."
                          Note that this means 6 sphere dots total, not necessarily 6 spheres.

                          Page 90:
                          "All mages start with one dot in a “specialty Sphere,” the
                          one Sphere that the mage best understands and for which the
                          character has the greatest affinity. This specialty is determined by
                          the character’s Tradition and faction (if you have one see Chapter
                          Two). Furthermore, you can spend five additional dots to improve
                          your character’s Spheres
                          — but don’t do so yet. No Sphere rating
                          can exceed the character’s Arete
                          , so you’ll need to spend freebie
                          points first, to raise Arete, if you want any Sphere better than the
                          rudiments"

                          Also note, same page:
                          "Some Orphans, especially Hollow Ones, have no specialty
                          Sphere. These characters learn all Spheres equally and get six
                          dots in whichever Spheres you please."


                          Also, on a side note, I highly suggest you make your ST aware of this forum. They do not seem to have much Mage experience either if they didn't know about the 6 Sphere dots on character generation, and people here are usually very glad to help when STs have questions about plots, mechanics or the like. And there will be questions. The initial post should just always specific the used edition.
                          Just don't dare to peek into their threads when you know they are posting
                          Last edited by Ambrosia; 05-07-2018, 12:36 PM.


                          >> cWoD Dice Probability Chart | | >> cWoD Dice Statistics Calculator | | >> cWoD Alternative Armor System
                          >> cWoD Alternative Damage Roll System | | >> My explanation of cWoD Damage Levels | | >> 'Intersting' Strength Attribute Stuff

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                          • #14
                            My ST is new to mage but not WOD. I just found the spot in the book that says 6! That helps more in combat than a few uses in correspondence! Thanks for all the help and suggestions. I am very excited to get our campaign going! I don't want to get to far off topic so I'll post in other threads with other questions.

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                            • #15
                              Mage has a lot of rules and a lot of imagination, so I suggest reading up on the things you want to do. The basic action mechanics are similar to other classic World of Darkness games (called that because Chronicles of Darkness and the newer World of Darkness use vastly different mechanics). So, if you get dice pools from Vampire or Werewolf or Changeling, they work about the same in Mage.

                              Also, if you are playing a Mage, remember that spheres are good in non-combat situations as well. Correspondence is amazing for finding out information. . .

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