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Syndicate Magic: Spheres and Tools

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  • #46
    Originally posted by Muad'Dib
    For example, what are their Entropy 4 Bless and Curse Foci and methods in regards to Effects cast on single persons, including themselves ? Can they cast Entropy 5 Effects involving changing somebody's fate, future, and actions ? How do they carry out such Effects ?
    No Technocrat would frame what they do as blessings or curses, but the Syndicate it's prety darn good at projections. Hypereconomy inclueds theories about success and failure that can be understood trough advanced probabilistics. Any Sindic that specializes in economy or business it's going to be a master statician, and with such mastery they can deduce when they're going to win in a casino just as well as any Euthanatos. They don't "bless" themselves, they calculate the path for success. They don't "curse" their enemies, but calculate how to foil their plans with just a small nudge. Now, this isn't such a neat instrument to be used in a pinch (no one wants to do advanced math in a fight. Albeit a Technocrat certainly can), but the Syndicate has never been the warrior Convention (albeit they totally use "common" Technocratic instruments like agent level enligthened markmanship).

    Changing somebody's fate it's as simple as to change their mentality, because fate doesn't exist - we're not superstitious like that - people build their own destiny, and fate it's just the probable conclussion of the path you're actually taking. Manipulating the way you think "changes fate", and that can be done with just a managerial nudge in the right (or wrong) direction. This is actually a specialty of the Syndicate, because they think people have a "net worth" that can be calculated: That's exactly Fate. It's the sum of the potential you have, which should account for the stuff you will be inclined and able to do. And that CAN be changed.

    You're making it too easy. The Syndicate Paradigm it's pretty bad to do stuff like Entropy 4: "rot someone from the inside out" or necromancy, but they aren't half bad for subtle stuff like "fate" or "future" that can be explained away as foresight and clever manipulation. The Syndicate it's bad at the flashy hypertech stuff that's magical in all but name, but changing somebody's course of action it's just being a good manager .

    They are like the Mages of the Order of Reason whose Magick is in many cases based on and cloaked in "intuition", "luck", "giving your best", "peak human capabilities", "fortune", or "insight" .
    I don't think they should use superstitious stuff like "luck" or "fortune" (at least not usually), however I don't see anything wrong with being in peak capability or using good ol' suggestion. A good amount of managerial techniques depend on stuff like "having charisma" and "give your 110%", while being well trained and knowing martial arts it's a must in any modern force of security worthy of such name. Technocratic Paradigm it's fully compatible with these.

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    • #47

      Originally posted by Furoan View Post
      Blessings and curses? They give a call and suddenly somebody’s credit score is in the shitter. That phone bill / mortgage/ credit card is starting to pile up because your interest rate went through the roof. Oops you can’t rent now because your credit score shows that you are horribly unreliable(even if you have paid every bill on time since forever). Sure that works best on people interacting with the mundane world, (...)
      This is all mundane actions and nothing that impressive. Though it is impressive in how easily members of the Syndicate can do this ; but many Mages ( and many other Nightfolk ) can deny a person money, mundane job, resources, or conveniences, that are provided by mundane institutions and infrastructure.

      Originally posted by Furoan View Post
      (...) and then you get into the exotic effects of how a bad credit score enhanced by Awakened Will is fucking you up in terms of probability until you pay it back.
      Now this is interesting as an ( for example ) Entropy 4 Effect, but I'd say that the M:tA books don't describe at all how a Mage of the Syndicate would carry out such an Effect. The Technocrats of the Syndicate lack a described and developed Foci for such Effects, and many other Magickal Effects that they are implied ( in various ways ) in M:tA books to be capable of.
      Last edited by Muad'Dib; 10-13-2018, 01:14 AM.

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      • #48
        Originally posted by Muad'Dib View Post
        Isn't the Syndicate as you described them more mystical than technocratic ? Going by what you, and other posters in this thread, wrote it seems that the Mages of the Syndicate are similar to ( for example ) the Cult of Ecstasy Mages to a much greater extent than they are to Technocrats of other Conventions. This is because of a lack of a technocratic and/or scientific basis for their Effects, and the focus on personal actions, qualities, and the Mage's lifestyle in regards to their Magick.

        There are places in M:tA books that do give this impression in regards to the Syndicate ( and Technocrats in general ) ; that they can cast mystical Effects through symbolism and belief. At the same time, there are many indications that the members of the Syndicate are Technocrat Mages in a similar - or at least comparable - way that the Technocrats of the four other Conventions of the Technocracy are.

        They get a lot more mystic than any of the other mages in the technocracy, and they apply the loosest of the "sciences" to their enlightened science. Syndicates focus on domination though hyper economics and the art of desire, which can lead to some pretty astounding mind, entropy, life, and prime effects. You can see a syndicate do most of this with eye contact, gestures, and most of all pure domination. If a syndicate dominates someone believes they are able to pull off effects they can because they are mages. The beliefs they have cultivated their own self worth then they can create effects like draining another value and primal energy or destroying another person with empowered life effects. Syndicates are the best at doing a lot with very little in the way of hypertech, they dont always need devices or gadgets, just strong confidence and a nice suit.

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        • #49
          Originally posted by Muad'Dib View Post

          This is all mundane actions and nothing that impressive. Though it is impressive in how easily members of the Syndicate can do this ; but many Mages ( and many other Nightfolk ) can deny a person money, mundane job, resources, or conveniences, that are provided by mundane institutions and infrastructure.


          Now this is interesting as an ( for example ) Entropy 4 Effect, but I'd say that the M:tA books don't describe at all how a Mage of the Syndicate would carry out such an Effect. The Technocrats of the Syndicate lack a described and developed Foci for such Effects, and many other Magickal Effects that they are implied ( in various ways ) in M:tA books to be capable of.

          Syndicate agents know that a persons own value dictates their lives in our economy, and with the power of plexic server axis an agent can modify a persons personal information so their wealth, health, and very fortune fall to pieces. Essentially using their phone or a computer as a foci a financier could alter a persons personal value and by adjusting it they can control the forces of their life indirectly.

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          • #50
            Originally posted by Brassfist View Post
            They get a lot more mystic than any of the other mages in the technocracy, and they apply the loosest of the "sciences" to their enlightened science. Syndicates focus on domination though hyper economics and the art of desire, which can lead to some pretty astounding mind, entropy, life, and prime effects. You can see a syndicate do most of this with eye contact, gestures, and most of all pure domination. If a syndicate dominates someone believes they are able to pull off effects they can because they are mages. The beliefs they have cultivated their own self worth then they can create effects like draining another value and primal energy or destroying another person with empowered life effects. Syndicates are the best at doing a lot with very little in the way of hypertech, they dont always need devices or gadgets, just strong confidence and a nice suit.
            Whether going by the more mystical take on and definition of the Technocrats of the Syndicate, or outlining and defining them under a technocratic take on the these Technocrats and how they carry out their Effects ( or portraying them as being in between those two approaches in regard to their Magick and their methods ) , I do think they do clearly and desperately need more Foci and methods. I think that assurance, some superlative skills, and nice suits, or other nice looking and well-made items, are definitely not enough.

            What about unique personal items, or given ( or exchanged ) meaningful gifts ? This isn't explored or outlined beyond mentioning lucky coins as Foci for an Adjustment in the first Syndicate Convention Books. What about calling upon and embodying tropes, ideals, or stereotypes ( Catchphrases are mentioned as a Foci for an Adjustment in the first Syndicate CB. ) ? Numerology is another possibility for an additional Foci and a method for the Technocrats of the Syndicate. Another one is tattoos - which can be intricately technological ( glowing, arcing, shifting ), as would be appropriate for members of the Technocracy. Those additional Foci that I mention and propose could be used for both possible directions the Syndicate can be portrayed and defined under - for the technocratic one, and for the mystic one ( And also for the take on the Syndicate that would be in between technocratic and mystic. ) .

            I think that it only needs to be admitted that what is currently described as the Foci and the methods of the Mages of the Syndicate is not enough. After this admission the possibilities become clear in regard to properly defining and expanding the Foci and methods of the Technocrats of the Syndicate Convention.
            I think that the Paradigm and the outlook of the Syndicate Convention, and the methods, values, symbolism, and assumptions that are present within it, are more than adequate to provide a basis, inspiration, and a direction in regard to outlining and defining additional Foci and methods for the Effects of the Technocrats of the Syndicate ; whether it would be developing and defining the Foci and the methods in a more technocratic, or a more mystical direction.
            Last edited by Muad'Dib; 10-24-2018, 04:22 AM.

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