Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Point value of Wonders?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Point value of Wonders?

    I've been trying to figure out the Wonder rules. On the Wonder Background chart (M20 core p. 328, BoS p. 150), we see that a one-dot Wonder is worth "1-3 points," and so on.

    BoS specifies that these 'points' are "freebie or experience points." I'm just going to assume that means "experience points," because freebie points are obviously not of the same value as XP (and we already know the cost for buying Wonder dots with freebie points), and that's not really the issue.

    My problem is that I can't find a clear statement anywhere in the M20 rules of how one arrives at a Wonder's point value. Most of the clear rules I can find reference the Wonder's dot rating instead; e.g. a Wonder can't have more separate powers than its dot rating, and the Sphere ratings used can't exceed the dot rating. These seem reasonable, but it doesn't give us a point number.

    A pack of 10 Charms (or Gadgets) normally costs half the points that a permanent Wonder would (BoS p. 140), but I still don't know what a permanent Wonder costs.

    BoS p. 149 says that a Trinket, as a "lesser" Wonder, only costs 1 point per rank in the highest Sphere used in its creation. That's fine (although I wish there was more guidance on Trinket design), but it still doesn't say what a non-lesser Wonder (like, presumably, a Device/Talisman or Artifact/Invention) would cost.

    Am I supposed to be using the rule in Forged by Dragon's Fire, where the base XP cost of a Wonder is equal to the sum of the Spheres used? That would explain at least the example Talisman described at the top of BoS p. 151 (and on corebook p. 653), but I can't find that rule stated anywhere in M20 (and it really doesn't fit some of the other example Wonders).

    I realize that hammering out a precise XP cost for a Wonder isn't always necessary (since a PC creating a Wonder only really needs to know its dot rating and Arete, and it's probably not that hard to guesstimate something appropriate given the above guidelines), but it would be nice to know how the rules are supposed to work. Did I miss the details somewhere?

  • #3
    Originally posted by Ambrosia View Post
    I made a post about that in another thread a while ago:
    http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/m...466#post710466
    Hope it helps
    I appreciate the help, but...you say that Wonders cost 2 Background points in character creation per dot? It isn't marked as costing double in chapter 6 (such as Enhancement, Sanctum, and Totem are).

    It also sounds like you're saying the XP cost of a Wonder is calculated (with an unexplained variance of 1-3 points) based on the Wonder's dot rating, and the chart makes vastly more sense if it's the other way around.

    It really seems like there's supposed to be a way to calculate XP cost properly, and we just...don't have it.

    Comment


    • #4
      Originally posted by Jefepato View Post
      I appreciate the help, but...you say that Wonders cost 2 Background points in character creation per dot? It isn't marked as costing double in chapter 6 (such as Enhancement, Sanctum, and Totem are).
      Welcome to the confusion. The table on page 653 tells us that, say, a 3 dot wonder costs '7-9 points'. All the 3-dot example wonders cost '6 background points'. The formula I described in the post tries to make sense of the points as they are presented in the table on page 653 for XP and freebies, while my comment about a Wonder costing 2 background points per dot comes from the example wonders and their "Background cost" rating.
      It is...very confusing but it's the only way I could make sense of things.

      EDIT:
      The confusion only grows by the sample wonders section stating that the 'background cost' in the sample wonders refers to XP/Freebie costs, but this directly contradicts that same table.
      Maybe the table refers to the *background points* and maybe the 'Background cost' after each example wonder indeed refers to XP and freebies, but in that case the background point cost would be way higher than the XP or freebie cost. I dunno. It's messy writing.
      Last edited by Ambrosia; 09-10-2018, 05:37 AM.


      cWoD Dice Probability Chart ||| cWoD Dice Statistics Calculator ||| cWoD Alternative Armor System
      cWoD Alternative Damage Roll System ||| My explanation of cWoD Damage Levels ||| 'Intersting' Strength Attribute Stuff
      EXPLOSIVE cWoD STUFF!

      Comment


      • #5
        Originally posted by Ambrosia View Post
        Welcome to the confusion. The table on page 653 tells us that, say, a 3 dot wonder costs '7-9 points'. All the 3-dot example wonders cost '6 background points'.
        I think I can explain that part, at least. A lot of the three-dot Wonders either have three different Effects involved (like the three-dot version of the Trushades), or require three dots in a Sphere (like the VDAS or the Bulletproof Hoodie), which makes them three dots at a minimum, despite not having point costs in the usual range of a three-dot Wonder.

        Consider also the Wolf-Paw Amulet, which has quite a few effects (and is apparently four dots for that reason), but has a shockingly low point cost, presumably because of all the flaws (such as "you go berserk" and "werewolves will kill you").

        But, of course, I still don't know how any of those point values were calculated...

        Comment

        Working...
        X