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Book of the Fallen and Gods & Monsters Discussion

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  • #16
    I think it depends on the type of evil. For all that the Mages pay lip service to protecting Sleepers, it's acknowledged that there were Tradition Mages on both sides of World War II, for example. Many mages have at least been complicit in systems like colonialism, slavery, and other types of exploitation without much qualms of conscience. Council mages don't seem to have a problem with members benefiting from institutional evils.

    On a personal level, it may depend on what the mage is actually doing. The modern Council would almost definitely balk at the active abuse of Sleepers or Mages, but what about a Son of Ether doing Frankenstein type experiments on a Vampire? Or a Hermetic violently seizing the caern of a Werewolf for power? Or perhaps if someone was mistreating wraiths or fae? I don't think the Council would approve, per se, but depending on the individual's power and prestige, I could see them turning a blind eye or adopting an "ends justify the means" approach.

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    • #17
      Well, it's also important than institutional evils are almost never seen as evil at the time they are going on. I agree on the second point though.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by History View Post
        Well, it's also important than institutional evils are almost never seen as evil at the time they are going on.
        I think that this tendency in thinking and view points shouldn't apply to Mages at all ; especially once it is considered that Mages have Spells that allow them to acquire information, and adopt and explore different perspectives.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Muad'Dib View Post
          I think that this tendency in thinking and view points shouldn't apply to Mages at all ; especially once it is considered that Mages have Spells that allow them to acquire information, and adopt and explore different perspectives.
          Those not always work or other mages (or supernaturals) hide stuff. Like the whole point of the WW2 in the setting was the Traditions and the Technocracy not getting the whole picture of the Holocaust and everyone being maniipulated and infiltrated by Nephandi, until the Euthanatoi and other people actually noticed something was very wrong. So we have actual examples of mages not having all the info or being played by other people. They have more resources to get info, but they are not infallible.
          Last edited by History; 10-15-2018, 06:35 AM.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Ambrosia View Post
            An excellent interview, and very worth listening to for the whole length.
            It's especially interesting to hear about the nature of Book Of The Fallen, as well as Gods & Monsters. Book Of The Fallen particularly - the takeaway is, that the book will be a serious Black Dog style punch to the gut, in regards to the very nature of the Nephandi. From the whole atmosphere of that part of the interview, it's easy to see that the point will be driven home that, no, they are not just 'evil' Mages. They are capital E, worst-nightmare scenario beings, and if players want to merely play an antagonistic Mage, the Nephandi are not what to pick unless you want to dive down the darkest of rabbit holes humanity can even remotealy conjure up.
            It's fitting, as the Nephandi are essentially the "true evil" of Mage - the faction to which there is no positive side or ability to emphasise with like the Trads, Technos or Disparates. Just humans who have inverted their souls so that anything we consider evil they consider good. It sounds nightmarish, especially with what humans get up to in both IRL and WoD without going through the Cauls. Not on my reading list, especially going by what the interview says about the opening fiction.

            The book of Gods & Monsters sounds intriguing, and I can't *wait* to get my hands on it. It sounds like it will be a very very interesting compendium on all sorts of beings from mundane to far-out-there concepts made flesh. I especially like the notion that with some tweaks, it will be usable across all gamelines. In a way it sounds more like a genral World Of Darkness book than anything particular Mage specific, which I highly approve of.
            It sounds fascinating to me too.

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            • #21
              Book of the Fallen is in Editing, and I just noticed that Gods and Monsters is in Layout.

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              • #22
                Yep, the next step for me is to get Technocracy Reloaded moved forward too, but I doubt that'll happen until at least December. It's mostly full steam ahead for the projects under my WoD banner!


                Matthew Dawkins
                In-House Developer for Onyx Path Publishing

                ~Hapax Legomenon~

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                • #23
                  I feel like Gods and Monsters has a chance to make it out before the end of the year.


                  PENTEX SUCKS.

                  I'm a gamer. I'm conservative. We exist.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Czernobog View Post

                    It's fitting, as the Nephandi are essentially the "true evil" of Mage - the faction to which there is no positive side or ability to emphasise with like the Trads, Technos or Disparates.
                    I think that the many and substantial achievements of the Nephandi faction can be empathised with ; and they can be considered positive - for example if one considers acquiring power and ambition to be positive qualities in a person or within a group of persons. Here are some of the achievements of the Nephandi :

                    The major characteristic of the Nephandi that is often mentioned is their reputation among other Mages, and the universal reluctance to engage in contact with them, that seems to a significant extent to be at the basis of the reputation that the Nephandi have. I think that this reluctance to interact with the Nephandi Mages that other Mages display is very impressive ; especially when one considers that the Traditions and the Technocracy definitely don't consist of persons who would feel reluctant or hesitant in general.
                    One of major the achievements of the Nephandi factions is the inclusion of Mages who are Widderslaintes into this faction. Considering that Mages who are Widderslaintes are of, and represent, the four Mage Essences different from the other four, more common, Mage Essences, this almost to a complete extent sole inclusion of Widderslaintes in the Nephandi faction - compared to other Mage factions and groups - is a major achievement on the part of the Nephandi.
                    Another impressive characteristic of the Nephandi as a group is their clear and straightfoward - yet at the same time one that has much variation - rank system. The rank system and it's qualities and characteristic indicate clear focus on achieving set aims and goals ; and it also indicates the ability of the Nephandi Mages to cooperate with each other, both as smaller and larger groups.

                    Originally posted by Czernobog View Post
                    (...) Just humans who have inverted their souls so that anything we consider evil they consider good. (...)
                    The Nephandi aren't " just humans " . They are Mages.
                    Where in M:tA books did you read that it is that simple as " anything evil they consider good " ? Which parts that you read gave you this impression, or implied this ?
                    Last edited by Muad'Dib; 10-24-2018, 09:20 AM.

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                    • #25
                      Anyone else wondering what will be the Book of the Fallen Prelude's subject matter? apparently the author was bracing himself for impact when he came up with the idea and it will be extrememly controversial. what could it be?

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Nicolas Milioni View Post
                        Anyone else wondering what will be the Book of the Fallen Prelude's subject matter? apparently the author was bracing himself for impact when he came up with the idea and it will be extrememly controversial. what could it be?
                        I'm not sure, but it's definitely something horrific. I don't want to know.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Nicolas Milioni View Post
                          Anyone else wondering what will be the Book of the Fallen Prelude's subject matter? apparently the author was bracing himself for impact when he came up with the idea and it will be extrememly controversial. what could it be?
                          ...didn't Brucatto mention what it was in that Pathcast interview? That it was going to be about a woman getting horribly abused?

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by tasti man LH View Post

                            ...didn't Brucatto mention what it was in that Pathcast interview? That it was going to be about a woman getting horribly abused?
                            i think he said someone,not necessarily a woman, is suffering abuse and listening why that happened to her. But i think theres more to that prelude than abuse,people suffering are not uncommon in Mage. It sounds like this prelude in particular will be disturbing on a whole new level

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                            • #29
                              From what I recall, he said that it centers around a Nephandus torturing a victim while explaining to her why his torture is for the greater good. But it's from her perspective, and what you get from her is “it hurts!” And that's the ultimate truth of the scene: for all his reasonings about why what he's doing the right thing in torturing her, he's deliberately causing her to suffer.


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                              • #30
                                New dev blog on Gods and Monsters, this time we have an excerpt of a djinn

                                Also, Gods and Monsters is off to Proofing.

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