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Convention Paradigms to explain enlightened will

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  • Convention Paradigms to explain enlightened will

    While I was re reading the void engineer revised book I came to a section in chapter 3 titled: enlightened cosmology that basically explains the overarching view of the void engineers and explains what enlightened science is and the reasoning behind their ability to effect reality through their enlightened will.

    "Founded in Platonism
    Tychoides’s ideas were refined by cross-research with Iteration X and before their defection, the Electrodyne Engineers. Modern Tychoidian cosmology treats the cosmos as a “hypercomputer:” a phenomenon able to exceed the limits of Turing machines and generate infinite, continuous processing. Physical laws behave like cellular automata and generate further “input” (for lack of a better word in English) for cosmological processing. These functions are handled by the smallest possible unit of physical information, which we call the Prime Element.

    The Enlightened Anthropic Principle

    Once these processes produce sentient beings capable of generating their own reality models, the universe instantiates the results just like any other computable input. Non-intelligent sentient beings merely model their own sense data, and cannot model what passes for their imaginations with enough fidelity to generate physical manifestations. But sapient beings, like humans, can instinctually produce perfect mathematical models of imagined objects — as physicist Roger Penrose postulated, such brains are natural quantum computers, capable of more processing power than anatomical studies suggest.

    This forms the foundation of the Enlightened Anthropic Principle. The conventional Anthropic Principle says that the universe looks like it’s been finetuned for human life because if it was any different, humans wouldn’t be around to observe it. But any Enlightened scientist knows that humans create these conditions by collectively generating the physics that allow them to survive. Adapted as they are to this local reality, individual humans mutate or die when taken away from its framework. Only the highly trained, Enlightened mind of a Master of Dimensional Science can generate an Anthropic Principle by itself. Other human beings need the processing power of the Masses.

    Most humans cannot produce models as complete as those spontaneously generated by the laws of nature — these ideas are usually relegated to other dimensions that are less “real” in the hierarchy of cosmological information. We Enlightened are the exception — or, rather, among the exceptions — able to create perfect models which instantiate in the conventional universe. Other minds reproduce these experiences, altering the general makeup of the universe."

    Essentially this is the viod engineers understanding of why individuals shape the universe with their will, through the view of quantum models and the anthropic principal. I really enjoyed this passage, but none of the other conventions have an interpretation of how their own genius/enlightenment effects the world. So I want to ask, do the other conventions view the effects they are preforming as strictly science or do they have their own interpretations of this idea? Do progenitors only think they are preforming advanced biology, or does their belief include ideas like "a progenitor own expertise influences impossible lab results" or some other special model to explain their abilities? Does the syndicate believe in the metaphysical power of the economy influences the shape of reality? How does the NWO and ItX view this aspect as well?

    Lastly, I never understood how the conventions viewed "reality deviant" effects. Do they consider their magic to be magic, or are they pulling a "clarkes third law" and saying its sufficiently advanced technology that cant be understood?

    Lengthy post....I know. Let me know what you think

    -Brassfist

  • #2
    I think the VE are kinda special in that their area lends itself to asking those kind of deep questions. I suspect a lot of Technocrats don't bother.

    Their technology works and that's all that really matters.


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    • #3
      Originally posted by Michael View Post
      I think the VE are kinda special in that their area lends itself to asking those kind of deep questions. I suspect a lot of Technocrats don't bother.

      Their technology works and that's all that really matters.

      That makes sense, but how do they view the magic that other the tradition mages preform? do they justify it within their paradigm or claim its actual magic?

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Brassfist View Post


        That makes sense, but how do they view the magic that other the tradition mages preform? do they justify it within their paradigm or claim its actual magic?
        It's just "Reality Deviance". You could call it "an incongruent science". It is functional, but it deviates from rational scientific law and threatens the stability of reality. The Technocracy is committed to controlling the Consensus and pushing it in a certain direction; mystics and technomystics are rivals and they broaden the consensus too much to be allowed any power.

        Yeah it's cool if you can heal people with your prayers, but you're decreasing faith in things like vaccinations by doing so. And that means fewer people taking them, and less of a Coincidental aspect to miracle cure injections, and less of a chance of future developments becoming Coincidental and then eventually normal unenlightened science...

        To put it simply, they've got a Timetable for the whole of the human race, and their reality. That's what it means to be a "deviant"; you aren't sticking to the timetable.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Brassfist View Post
          Do progenitors only think they are preforming advanced biology, or does their belief include ideas like "a progenitor own expertise influences impossible lab results" or some other special model to explain their abilities?
          There are two pictures in the Progenitors' Convention Book - on pages 6 and 36 - that I think definitely point towards the notion that the Progenitors see it more than advanced biology and science.
          The robes that those Mages wear and their postures on those pictures are the parts which for me are especially evocative of this.
          Last edited by Muad'Dib; 09-28-2018, 10:50 PM.

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          • #6
            Rise Necro Thread..........

            Originally posted by Muad'Dib View Post
            There are two pictures in the Progenitors' Convention Book - on pages 6 and 36 - that I think definitely point towards the notion that the Progenitors see it more than advanced biology and science.
            The robes that those Mages wear and their postures on those pictures are the parts which for me are especially evocative of this.
            I figured it was just some fancy art that they did to show dark ages mages, or that it was just art they enjoyed personally. I don't think most progenitors dress in robes with swords and stuff. On the other hand, what makes the technocracy so fun is when individuals break the mold of "lab-coat scientist" and "black suit secret agent". You think they dress up like that in modern times?

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Brassfist View Post
              I figured it was just some fancy art that they did to show dark ages mages
              I don't think so ; these pictures aren't in the history section ; and there is another Mage in robe on page 4.
              There are two pictures of ( I assume ) Dark Ages Mages later, on page 11.
              The Progenitor in picture 6 is using electricity from little generators around him, is looking at a DNA helix, and has interface sockets linking him somewhere. This definitely seems modern to me.
              The second picture is lacking any technology, a case could be made that he or she is not a modern Mage ; but I think that he is one.
              Originally posted by Brassfist View Post
              I don't think most progenitors dress in robes with swords and stuff.
              I don't think most would, only those of ( as a rough benchmark ) Arete 6-9. Maybe also Arete 5 Progenitors.
              Originally posted by Brassfist View Post
              On the other hand, what makes the technocracy so fun is when individuals break the mold of "lab-coat scientist" and "black suit secret agent". You think they dress up like that in modern times?
              I think they do ; I see no reasons why they wouldn't. It does fit the whole "keepers of the knowledge and the secrets of life" angle that the Progenitors have as theirs. I think that after some point looking for inspiration and a personal approach become very important for a Technocrat ; it is not only about an analytical and scientific approach and methods.
              Last edited by Muad'Dib; 10-05-2018, 11:11 AM.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Muad'Dib View Post
                I don't think so ; these pictures aren't in the history section ; and there is another Mage in robe on page 4.
                There are two pictures of ( I assume ) Dark Ages Mages later, on page 11.
                The Progenitor in picture 6 is using electricity from little generators around him, is looking at a DNA helix, and has interface sockets linking him somewhere. This definitely seems modern to me.
                The second picture is lacking any technology, a case could be made he or she is not a modern Mage ; but I think that he is one.

                I don't think most would, only those of ( as a rough benchmark ) Arete 6-9. Maybe also Arete 5 Progenitors.

                I think they do ; I see no reasons why they wouldn't. It does fit the whole "keepers of the knowledge and the secrets of life" angle that the Progenitors have as theirs. I think that after some point looking for inspiration and a personal approach become very important for a Technocrat ; it is not only about an analytical and scientific approach and methods.
                Honestly, I would love to have technocrats that are more like keepers of secret knowledge after arete 5. After that point you have become a conduit for your own science, and because they can never drop their tools I figured they would just be covered in even more scientific gear and more heavily augmented. I guess that is why I can never see progenitors as anything but scientists, otherwise they start looking like verbena.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Brassfist View Post
                  After that point you have become a conduit for your own science, and because they can never drop their tools I figured they would just be covered in even more scientific gear and more heavily augmented.
                  A Technocrat Mage can develop in another way in regards to her or his Magick as she or he becomes more capable, wise, powerful, and experienced. She can keep developing and upgrading her lab(s) ; or machine shop, or office, depending on the Technocrat.
                  The technology ( and other items used as Foci, like notes or photographs ) that she carries with herself after spending time at her lab working on it stays as small and compact as it was ; while the Effects that the Technocrat can do with them become greater. The Technocrat Mage learns to find new, novel solutions, and realizes that what she thought to be difficult or complex in the past is actually easily done, and basic for her. This enables her to carry out more complex Procedures that accomplish better and greater results. Both the lab and the items carried with herself are part of her Foci for her Magick, of course.

                  Here are some examples of how I understand that it is, and how I envision it to be, for Technocrats as they raise in Arete, advance their understanding of particular kinds of Magick further, and grow in other ways as Mages and persons :

                  A Progenitor has vials with substances, injection syringes and pills, that have been developed in an extremely well-equipped and personalised lab. The lab has separate testing zones, relaxation area, data storage room, sample storage and analysis areas etc. that are in some cases the size of what her whole lab used to be.

                  A member of the Iteration-X has learned to miniaturize energy projectors and catalyzers that she uses to carry out ( for example ) Matter 4-5 and Forces 4-5 Procedures. Or she can create materials and substances in her lab that, due to their properties and their instability beyond her lab, are used by her as part of such Procedures by placing them at a place and activating them.

                  A member of the New World Order can reach far-ranged conclusions and continue to give an exponential number of arguments, with just a glimpse at two or three pages of multi-purpose notes and data charts that she carries with herself. She prepares the notes at her office, or anywhere she can sit and reach the right and needed state of mind ; such places and areas are a rarity outside of Technocratic Sanctums and Constructs . If there is need for further analysis or for double-checking assumptions and conclusions, she can swiftly tailor and adapt her notes to a particular situation by making case-specific annotations and comments on copies of the notes that she carries for such occasions.
                  Last edited by Muad'Dib; 10-06-2018, 02:26 PM.

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                  • #10
                    The most simple explanation?

                    Deviants believe that they use the power of the “avatar” - a sort of higher-self/guardian-angel which takes all sorts of hallucinatory forms - to manipulate reality – of course, they’re simply using their Genius in a way which disrupts reality and gives them severe hallucinations.

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