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Technocracy Archmasters

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  • Rock113
    replied
    Originally posted by History View Post
    Oracle Dante seem to be everywhere at the same time, all places are alike to him. He is the Rogue Council's messenger after all. Ascension never gets into details on what he can do, but he seems to be really busted.
    Also a level-up .


    PS : Uh , let me think about Kischur Zelretch Schweinorg in TYPE-MOON...

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  • History
    replied
    Originally posted by Rock113 View Post

    Just ... this ? No more Badass advantage he gained ? Like Avatar or Arete 10 or level the Correspondence up or massive Resource ...?

    I always think Oracles like Buddha in Buddhist , they have insight into this world , and no fear ...
    Oracle Dante seem to be everywhere at the same time, all places are alike to him. He is the Rogue Council's messenger after all. Ascension never gets into details on what he can do, but he seems to be really busted.

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  • Rock113
    replied
    Originally posted by Czernobog View Post

    IIRC he used Correspondence to heal somebody who'd been cut in half, an effect normally restricted to the Life sphere.
    Just ... this ? No more Badass advantage he gained ? Like Avatar or Arete 10 or level the Correspondence up or massive Resource ...?

    I always think Oracles like Buddha in Buddhist , they have insight into this world , and no fear ...
    Last edited by Rock113; 10-16-2018, 11:38 AM.

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  • Czernobog
    replied
    Originally posted by Rock113 View Post
    What does Dante gain after he became Oracle ?
    IIRC he used Correspondence to heal somebody who'd been cut in half, an effect normally restricted to the Life sphere.

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  • Rock113
    replied
    Originally posted by Czernobog View Post

    According to his write-up Faraday merged electricity and magnetism, then created the strong and weak nuclear forces. That's what Forces 9 does. The Traditions are very very lucky he's not around anymore.



    Yes, true.



    They seem to be very rare. Dante, the unstoppable Villain Sue from the Hell on Earth scenario, Medea, Akrites Salonikas ... I think that's all of them mentioned.
    I remember Force 6 can also do these .

    And , If he truly has Force 9 , he may be one of the most powerful mage in the world ... Even a great threat to Unnamed ... Traditions must cry ... And he could defeat several Antes by himself...

    Uh , about Oracle number , I just know Nine Traditions has 9 , every Sphere has one Oracle
    (Not every Tradition , which means one Tradition may have 2 or 3 Oracles ... )And Nephadi has 6 Aswadims , Maruader has one ... maybe every Organization has one Oracle...

    What does Dante gain after he became Oracle ?
    Last edited by Rock113; 10-15-2018, 09:33 PM.

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  • Czernobog
    replied
    Originally posted by Rock113 View Post
    And , Lv.6 Spheres may possible , but to tell the truth , I think Force 9 is very very very overpowerful , I remember you can use it to create Gravity from nothing , not oppose or change , you will be a God anyway...
    According to his write-up Faraday merged electricity and magnetism, then created the strong and weak nuclear forces. That's what Forces 9 does. The Traditions are very very lucky he's not around anymore.

    This is an Oracle-level power , but in theory Tech Unions can also have Oracles...
    Yes, true.

    And , how many Oracles ?…
    They seem to be very rare. Dante, the unstoppable Villain Sue from the Hell on Earth scenario, Medea, Akrites Salonikas ... I think that's all of them mentioned.
    Last edited by Czernobog; 10-15-2018, 08:37 PM.

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  • Rock113
    replied
    Originally posted by Czernobog View Post
    I think the definition is possession of a Sphere level above 5. Faraday would have had Forces 6, Turing Data/Correspondence 6 (he was an Archmaster as well according to M20) and Tychoides DimSci 6 if they had ever been statted. Sphere levels above 6 seem to be purely theoretical - even heavy-hitters like Porthos and Voormas only had Forces and Entropy at 6 respectively.

    EDIT: Actually looking at the wiki it seems Faraday would have had to have Forces 9 to do what he did:

    http://whitewolf.wikia.com/wiki/Forces_(MTAs)



    EDIT 2: He's referred to as "the most powerful High Scientist" the Technocracy has known, which implies there were others and gels with him having had Forces 9. Shame it didn't save him from Paradox though ...
    The definition of Archmage is that you have Lv.6 in any Sphere , I think .

    And , Lv.6 Spheres may possible , but to tell the truth , I think Force 9 is very very very overpowerful , I remember you can use it to create Gravity from nothing , not oppose or change , you will be a God anyway... This is an Oracle-level power , but in theory Tech Unions can also have Oracles...

    And , how many Oracles ?…
    Last edited by Rock113; 10-15-2018, 08:24 PM.

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  • Czernobog
    replied
    I think the definition is possession of a Sphere level above 5. Faraday would have had Forces 6, Turing Data/Correspondence 6 (he was an Archmaster as well according to M20) and Tychoides DimSci 6 if they had ever been statted. Sphere levels above 6 seem to be purely theoretical - even heavy-hitters like Porthos and Voormas only had Forces and Entropy at 6 respectively.

    EDIT: Actually looking at the wiki it seems Faraday would have had to have Forces 9 to do what he did:

    http://whitewolf.wikia.com/wiki/Forces_(MTAs)

    Alter Universal Forces: The mage can manipulate the interaction of the Shenti themselves, devise entire new forces or alter existing Forces to his liking.
    EDIT 2: He's referred to as "the most powerful High Scientist" the Technocracy has known, which implies there were others and gels with him having had Forces 9. Shame it didn't save him from Paradox though ...
    Last edited by Czernobog; 10-15-2018, 08:09 PM.

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  • ebakunin
    replied
    What exactly is the definition of Archmage/Archmaster? Is high Arete enough or do you need access to a Sphere level above 5? If it's the later, it would explain why Aleph is the perfect tool of Control while Tychoides wouldn't even need deprocessing - Aleph isn't an Archmaster. And since Control wouldn't want other Archmasters competing with their aims they would prevent new Archmasters from surpassing his/her Threshold.

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  • PhillyCuriosity
    replied
    Originally posted by Czernobog View Post

    The thing is, Aleph's whole concept is based on him having permanent Procedures which essentially give him a perfect, dynamic cover identity - no matter where he goes, everybody he meets recognises him as the commander of that nation's military just below the Head of State. It's not far out to say that these Procedures removed most of his identity in exchange.
    What I'm positing is that his transition isn't the exception but the norm. That similar procedures (maybe not as severe) are applied as one advances. It partly answers the question of why we don't get a lot of character sheets for high level technocrats. Again, I fully recognize this isn't a canon answer but I feel it's supportable.

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  • Czernobog
    replied
    Originally posted by PhillyCuriosity View Post
    Good point, I didn't think of Tychoides. Undead Rabbit's post explaining de-processing could explain why he's an oddity. The "Aleph Phenomenon" is I guess one way of thinking why we don't get a lot of information on contemporary Technocratic Archmasters (members of Control and those who write the time table). I do think the deindividuation as one goes up the ranks at least becomes an option. I'm curious what this'd look like in roleplaying.
    The thing is, Aleph's whole concept is based on him having permanent Procedures which essentially give him a perfect, dynamic cover identity - no matter where he goes, everybody he meets recognises him as the commander of that nation's military just below the Head of State. It's not far out to say that these Procedures removed most of his identity in exchange.

    As for roleplaying it ... there are all sorts of ways but I think if the player goes too far down that path their character should become controlled by the ST.

    Originally posted by Eldagusto
    Also wouldn’t the Avatar Storm have essentially crippled them and even after it passed they would have a hard time becoming dominant again?
    They would most likely have succumbed to disembodiment by now. They may even be the leaders of Threat Null.


    And with the nature of Science and innovation wouldn’t some of the Archmages be using wooden Robuts and blimps as their big guns?
    I think they would probably be using modern hypertech, with perhaps a few quirks - Convention Book: Iteration X briefly mentions Technocrat Masters uploaded to AI mainframes talking in medieval English.

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  • PhillyCuriosity
    replied
    Originally posted by Czernobog View Post

    Is that something which happens to all high-Enlightenment technocrats, or a function of Aleph's permanent Mind procedures? Tychoides in the same adventure seems to display none of whatever Aleph has and it seems neither did the other Technocrat archmasters mentioned.
    Good point, I didn't think of Tychoides. Undead Rabbit's post explaining de-processing could explain why he's an oddity. The "Aleph Phenomenon" is I guess one way of thinking why we don't get a lot of information on contemporary Technocratic Archmasters (members of Control and those who write the time table). I do think the deindividuation as one goes up the ranks at least becomes an option. I'm curious what this'd look like in roleplaying.

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  • Eldagusto
    replied
    So what is the point of the Technocracy Leaders being Nephandi? What did they gain?

    Also wouldn’t the Avatar Storm have essentially crippled them and even after it passed they would have a hard time becoming dominant again?


    And with the nature of Science and innovation wouldn’t some of the Archmages be using wooden Robuts and blimps as their big guns?

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  • Undead rabbit
    replied
    Void Engineers use a procedure to de-condition themselves; they are not subject to Control, this is one of the biggest secrets the Convention has.

    Deprocessing
    (Mind ●●●● [Prime ●●])

    Void Engineer psychiatrists make every effort to
    remove standard Technocratic Conditioning, but even as
    threats from the Void make it more necessary than ever,
    staffing shortages and the general state of emergency have
    changed the Deprocessing Procedure from a gradual,
    gentle reintroduction to autonomy to a full-on attempt
    to break and rebuild the Enlightened mind. Medics
    administer hallucinogens and other drugs that interfere with
    neurological executive function. An Enlightened therapist
    guides the subject through several “disloyal” scenarios
    using a mix of verbal tactics and virtual reality. Bouts of
    catatonia and rage are positive signs that indicate the subject
    is pushing against the boundaries of her Conditioningmediated
    identity. The therapist offers alternatives to these
    stopping points, and gradually recovers the person beneath
    the Conditioning — or someone close enough, free-minded
    but a bit bent by her recent psychodrama.


    To succeed at Deprocessing, a Void Engineer must
    accumulate twice as many successes as the subject’s Willpower
    + Conditioning rating (see the Guide to the Technocracy,
    pp. 89-90). This is a coincidental Procedure if the therapist
    takes it slow, and his player makes one Procedure roll per day.
    It turns vulgar if the character tries to quickly burn out the
    Conditioning, but her player can then make one Procedure
    roll her hour. By adding Prime 2 to this Mind 4 Procedure,
    the therapist adds a margin of safety; each success acts as
    one die of a counter-Procedure that affects any Procedure
    her subject attempts, as long as it was motivated by her
    Conditioning. This includes counter-Procedures intended
    to directly interfere with the Deprocessing Procedure itself.



    f we have a genuine foe in the Technocracy, it’s the
    New World Order. This isn’t new — it lives to distrust
    others, and that’s especially dangerous in these troubling
    times. Its agenda of controlling everything is quite at
    odds with ours of exploring everything. It conditions
    new Technocrats with Processing; we fix ours with Deprocessing. There are dozens of places we can point
    to where we’re polar opposites.
    Our Convention’s methods are somewhat… unorthodox, compared to the rest of the Union. Even casual conversation with people from other Conventions illustrates this; frequently we get strange looks when some
    innocuous comment or gesture indicates that we’re not
    as dedicated the Union’s plans as everyone else. This is a
    natural consequence of our broken conditioning, which we go to great lengths to conceal, for obvious reasons.
    A division of the DIMH called the Enforcement
    Training and Conditioning Agency (ECTA) oversees
    deprogramming Cadets in our colleges. This further
    cements their professional disdain for the NWO; they
    constantly have to dig damaging mental conditioning
    out of the minds of young people, whose only crime is
    possessing a desire to learn and a temperament given
    to wandering. Once conditioning has been broken, the
    ECTA then proceeds to implant safety training into the
    Cadet’s minds. This includes buffering their psyches
    against the shock and trauma of encountering dangerous
    alien entities. Too often, green Cadets (including many
    Marines) make fatal errors in judgment in early contacts
    with the enemy. Our Procedures give them a psychological buffer, suitable for duty in the more dangerous parts
    of the Universe. This is not another form of social and
    mental control. It allows Void Engineers to make the best
    possible decisions with a clear mind, while mainstream
    Technocratic conditioning seeks to control those decisions. We wouldn’t presume to do that for them; we
    trust them to decide for themselves.
    Last edited by Undead rabbit; 10-15-2018, 08:15 AM.

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  • Czernobog
    replied
    Originally posted by PhillyCuriosity View Post
    General Aleph from Ascension brings up an interesting case of the more "enlightened" a Technocrat tends to get the less identity they have. It could be the case that Technocrat archmasters kind of lose their identity and become whatever those who witness them say it to be.
    Is that something which happens to all high-Enlightenment technocrats, or a function of Aleph's permanent Mind procedures? Tychoides in the same adventure seems to display none of whatever Aleph has and it seems neither did the other Technocrat archmasters mentioned.

    Leave a comment:

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