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What if Mage has as many books as Vampire?

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  • What if Mage has as many books as Vampire?

    If Mage had received the book count of Vampire, what additional books would you have want to see written?

    This is partly to ask "what areas does the community wish had more coverage" and also by omission "what areas have enough coverage". Maybe Storyteller's Vault will grant some wishes. :3


  • #2
    This is a game I like to play with a lot of gamelines. I think they would get a lot more lore, and historical accounts. We would finally get actual attention paid to Archmage rules, and we would get sorcerer rules. We would also probably get setting books like think instead of Kindred of the Ebony Kingdom or Kindred of the East books like Ascension War India and the Five Metal Dragons.

    We would get a lot more canon characters cross referenced.


    It is a time for great deeds!

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    • #3
      A few things
      - I would have liked a "Book of the disparate", not as in "Guide to the craft", but a list of possible cabals, little craft, sub traditions,etc... giving potential little groups and potential plot points.
      With the sheer possibilities of the setting, there should have been a book made on the groups only mentionned here and there like the sub traditions in the guide to the traditions.

      Not that I don't like the main factions, but the traditions and conventions end up being repetitive and too specific to englob the possible groups that wouls appear in such a world.

      -a "beckett"'s ascension war diary.

      Plot hooks, or the possible use of some left in the older books, what of this sub tradition pretending to speak of an alternate universe where the traditions stand better than this one? What of the attempt of Jules Vernes to create an AI that would be more powerful than the consensus? What of the utopian conspiracy and the possible schism of the conventions?

      -A book of the deep umbra/universe

      The cosmology of mage is big, even though a lot is discussed in other WOD books, but mages are the most interested into the deep umbra, a book for "high leveled" mages, what they could find there, what may happens in a place outside of human consensus, possible alien or frighteningly familiar entities they may find...

      -on the same theme, more groups centered about specific things in the umbra, there is strangely few dream based mage groups or space based non technocrats ones.

      -Most important, a "Book of ascension" based on the long term goals of mages, little and great.
      It's funny and all to concentrate on how they awakened, what is their place in chantry/global politics, but one of the themes of mage is the quest for more, even the "master of the art" book is more about power and the daily life of archmasters and less about their end goals.

      For a game based on people fighting for their visions of the perfect world, we're told an awfully few about it.

      And for the tellurian's sake, a real talk about ascension.

      Going all "how could we mortal understand such concept" is a bad excuse, it doesn't make ascension criptic and mysterious.

      Is it too much to ask a storyteller guide to the ascension?

      Not asking definite answer, but potential (and contradictory) possibilities, legends, in short, a guide of how to build the ST vision(s) of ascension.

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      • #4
        A book about Cabals, Amalgams, and Ahrimans ( The Nephandi's equivalent of Cabals ) ; possibly also about groups of Mages from outside the three main Mage factions. Detailing how groups of Mages form, how they function, how they differ from each other, and how they change a Mage's life ; and how they influence the Magick of a Mage.

        A series of three books, each one detailing three of the Spheres / kinds of Magick. My suggestion for the division of the kinds of Magick : Prime, Mind, Spirit / Correspondence, Time, Entropy / Life, Matter, Forces . Or it could be a series of nine books, one for each kind of Magick.
        The books would describe the Spells and other related abilities of a given kind of Magick, the consequences of delving into and using it, the differing perspectives about it, specialities and variants, research and tutelage, and approaches and methods.
        Last edited by Muad'Dib; 11-08-2018, 07:19 PM.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Muad'Dib View Post
          Three books, each detailing three of the Spheres / kinds of Magick. My suggestion for the division of the kinds of Magick : Prime, Mind, Spirit / Correspondence, Time, Entropy / Life, Matter Forces . Or it could be nine books, one for each kind of Magick. The books would describe the Spells and other related abilities of a given kind of Magick, the consequences of delving into and using it, the differing perspectives about it, specialities and variants, research and tutelage, and approaches and methods.

          A billion time yes. Books of sphere would be a great idea, giving advise on the impact of one's sphere on the life of a mage, how he relate to others, and little things that would make the difference between a time master and any other mage.

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          • #6
            A book on mages houses, because book of havens exists.

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            • #7
              A few years ago, as a creative exercise, I tried to figure out how I might've developed Mage (and all the other games) from the beginning with the benefits of hindsight and experience. A few of the things I wish Mage had included originally are as follows:

              Witchunters - I would've made this the fourth product in the line, a collection of antagonists and threats for Storytellers to use, divided into four chapters. The Mundane World, including environmental hazards, animals, mortal hindrances such as police, criminals, and the media, as well as unawakened cults, the mentally unbalanced, meddling kids, and the like. Also the Arcanum, Society of Leopold and Twilight Agencies. The Invisible World of spirits, with multiple types - elementals, demons, angels, alien beings, weird conceptual beings, ancient gods, ghosts and fey (this would've predated Wraith and Changeling) - of various power levels. The Awakened, including rivals, rogues/outlaws who've violated Tradition rules, dangerous Orphans, forces of the Technocracy, agents of the Nephandi, and Marauders. And the Supernatural, which at this point would've primarily been vampires and were beasts (without using any nomenclature from the other games), as well as Bygones (both old and new), the Created (homunculi, Frankenstein monsters, sentient robots, etc.), and bizarre urban legends like the Midnight Express ghost train, the 13th Floor, and whatever other stuff writers could come up with. (Every game would've had one of these books - Nightstalkers, Wolfsbane, The Quick & The Dead, Grimm Fears, and Wolves at the Door.)

              Modern Magic - the fifth book, a guide for players and storytellers about being a Mage in the modern World of Darkness, spending a lot of time talking about thing like having to hide your identity from the Technocracy, opting to live off the grid, and gradually losing touch with regular people. Also modern superstitions, religious rituals, and various mystic threads Mages can tap into, the various battle grounds of the Ascension War, and a catalog of modern style Rotes, Bygones, Talismans and other goodies.

              The Crossover Guides - This would've been a series of books for all the lines, all along the same structure. A chapter about how the two groups cross paths, areas of common interest and conflict, factions in each game that deal with the other, and a bunch of premade NPCs; A pair of chapters looking at the signature cities of each line and what the other group is doing there (Mystic Chicago, for example), and a premade crossover chronicle that can be set in either city. Mage's books would've been Blood Magic (Vampire), Savage Magic Mystic Moon (Werewolf), Dead Magic (Wraith) and Mystic Zenith (Changeling).

              Seekers of Ascension - Mage's Who's Who book, with write ups for the game's signature characters, the leaders of the Traditions, important NPCs, chantry leaders and curious characters from around the world, as well as dangerous and infamous members of the Technocracy, Nephandi and other groups.

              Chantry, Sanctum and Cabal - A book about the strongholds of the Awakened, with chapters expanding on the Sanctum background, how Chantries work and are formed, including their various offices, how Mages organize themselves in cities and other geographic areas, and a further look at Cabals, including how and why they form, purposes they have and how they interact with each other. There'd be sample Sanctums, Chantries and Cabals, the last being suitable as allies, rivals or even enemies for the PC cabal.

              The Technomancers' Toolbox - A players guide for technomancers, looking at the history of the art, it's place in the various Traditions (including factions in each sect), a bunch of new Rotes, Talismans, and the like, and some premade character templates (one for each Essence). This would've been the first of a series, with others including Skin-Changers (shapeshifting), Healing Hands (healers, obviously), Hearts & Minds (Ars Cupidae), and Second Sight (seers). The exception to this formula would've been spirit-talkers, who would be covered in ...

              The Spirit Ways - (Yes, I repurposed a lot of older titles) A guide to spirits and the Invisible World for the Awakened. A full catalog of spirit types and their powers, the various spirit courts with their protocols and politics, deals and pacts with spirits, designing your own spirits, and places where they congregate in the material world. Also the players guide to spirit talkers.

              Wizard's March - the Awakened guide to war, including the ritualized combat between members of the Traditions, the shadow wars over influence and lore in the World of Darkness, and the Ascension War against the Technocracy and Nephandi. Also a look at real world military style gear that characters might get their hands on, and premade chronicles.

              Dark Magic - A guide to the morally questionable areas of magic, including necromancy, demonology, blood magic, chaos magic, cursing, and mad science.

              Tales of Magic: Occult Horror/Arcane Mystery/Mystic Romance - a tetralogy of books (the other being Dark Adventure) for Storytellers looking at different genres and how to use them in Mage. Examining the genre, it's variations and subgenres, genre tropes, archetypical NPCs and plots, etc. And premade chronicles.

              Destiny's Price - (Another repurposed title), a look at the high cost of being Awakened, with chapters looking at the toll magic and the Ascension War take on one socially, mentally, physically, and spiritually.

              Scourge: The Book of Paradox - basically everything you would ever want to know about the subject, including it's various manifestations, how and why it happens, Mages who investigate and study it, and more Paradox Spirits than you can shake a broken wand at.

              Essence of Magic: Book of Avatars - A look at the four avatar essences in greater detail and how they function in Mage society (sort of like Werewolf's book of Auspices).

              Cabinet of Curiosities - A collection of oddities and weirdness which often defy the rules as Mage's understand them. Strange relics, mysterious artifacts, lost tomes, cursed objects, and alien items, all with plot hooks and potential chronicle ideas.

              Last edited by No One of Consequence; 11-09-2018, 06:01 PM.


              What is tolerance? It is the consequence of humanity. We are all formed of frailty and error; let us pardon reciprocally each other's folly. That is the first law of nature.
              Voltaire, "Tolerance" (1764)

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              • #8
                Sphere book , Rote book , Tradition/Tech Union/Marauder/Nephandi Novel/Chronicle

                And , Maybe they can be as powerful as Vampires normally (Yeah , normally , new-born and normal mages are weaker than vampires generally )? The reason why Vampire has so many books is that V:tM is the most popular , and books WW published strengthen Vampire's common Power at last unintentionally (To tell the truth , I always think Vampires are more powerful than other races in most conditions ... )
                Last edited by Rock113; 11-09-2018, 09:50 AM.

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                • #9
                  Mage: Ascended beings and Gods a book about what ascension is , the archmages and the Exarchs.The supernal exist along imperial magic and the reality is more static than what the consensus could make you think becuase everything is a reflection of the supernal , a mere shadow.Also rules for ascended beings and the avatars being fallen supernal being triying to create archmages to fight back the Exarchs.

                  Mage:Unlimited Horizon a book about the mage cosmology , planes and realms full of weirdness and interesting characters.It will include a bestiary of monsters and being from other planes.

                  Mage:The Failure:What happens when a mage hubris grow to big? buy this book to discover the greatest botches of all mage history and it´s consecuences in the world

                  Mage:Cabals of the world:A book about mage characters and cabals around the world , their objetives , what are they doing and their relationship in similar line to chicago by night books and Children of the night.

                  Fallen Guide to the Nephandi:A guide about the nephadi factions that exist within the traditions and the technocrazy and their way of working.Also better rules for the qlipothic speheres instead of extra paradox you are trapped in a caul for a time acording to the succes of the paradox roll.Also a talk a about being that almost descended ceasin to exist the Qli eldricht abovinations from previous universes that rage against the world for they being trapped forever in a caul until they manage to attain a soul basically they are what the baali make deals and fear.
                  Last edited by Leandro16; 11-09-2018, 03:22 AM.


                  Hunger pool

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Leandro16 View Post
                    Mage: Ascended beings and Gods a book about what ascension is , the archmages and the Exarchs.The supernal exist along imperial magic and the reality is more static than what the consensus could make you think becuase everything is a reflection of the supernal , a mere shadow.Also rules for ascended beings and the avatars being fallen supernal being triying to create archmages to fight back the Exarchs.
                    Awakening mytho don't mix well with Ascension cosmology.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Rock113 View Post
                      Rote book (...)
                      I think that a book in regard to Conjunctional Magick would be very interesting ; I also think it is needed to further define and improve M:tA.
                      It could discuss many issues. Which kinds of Magick serve as the basis, and which are the addition in a Conjunctional Effect ; can this distinction always be made in regard to a Conjunctional Effect ? Which parts of a Conjunctional Effect can be done with other kinds of Magick interchangeably ? Are Effects which include just one kind of Magick sometimes more potent, and are Mages who do so as a rule more capable in some ways ? How does Conjunctional Magick differ from Mage to Mage, and from Paradigm to Paradigm ?

                      Originally posted by Lian View Post
                      A book on mages houses, because book of havens exists.
                      There is the Book of Chantries. But I understand that this is probably not what you mean.
                      I think that Sanctums, and other special places related to Mages or places that Mages use, should definitely be detailed in a separate book.

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                      • #12
                        A Revised Player's Guide (that should include a good section about Rotes), because the Book of Shadows it's painfully old

                        A Revised Book of Chantries would be good too, as stuff changed and many chantries were destroyed.

                        A book on the same vein as Spirit Ways, but about the occidental Traditions: True Names, High Ritual Hermetiscism/Gnosticism, Verbena Druidism, etc.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Aleph View Post

                          A book on the same vein as Spirit Ways, but about the occidental Traditions: True Names, High Ritual Hermetiscism/Gnosticism, Verbena Druidism, etc.
                          I would like to see one on weird/Obsolete scientific theories for the SOE, or on actual wild scientific implication for the VA and technocracy

                          In truth, I think Mage require a Book of science, both to present science as it works in real life and the implication of the game's cosmology on it.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Nyremne View Post

                            Awakening mytho don't mix well with Ascension cosmology.
                            Depends how do you decide to do that

                            If you use a system of tiers a la CoD it will work and the core game won´t be affected at all


                            Hunger pool

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Nyremne View Post
                              -Most important, a "Book of ascension" based on the long term goals of mages, little and great.
                              It's funny and all to concentrate on how they awakened, what is their place in chantry/global politics, but one of the themes of mage is the quest for more, even the "master of the art" book is more about power and the daily life of archmasters and less about their end goals.

                              For a game based on people fighting for their visions of the perfect world, we're told an awfully few about it.

                              And for the tellurian's sake, a real talk about ascension.

                              Going all "how could we mortal understand such concept" is a bad excuse, it doesn't make ascension criptic and mysterious.

                              Is it too much to ask a storyteller guide to the ascension?

                              Not asking definite answer, but potential (and contradictory) possibilities, legends, in short, a guide of how to build the ST vision(s) of ascension.
                              As it is, Ascension is far more vague and mysterious than Golconda in Vampire ... ironic, as Mage was supposed to be more hopeful than Vampire in that every mage would be seeking Ascension.

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