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The Luises: Luis Tristan de Varre and Luis de Estes

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  • The Luises: Luis Tristan de Varre and Luis de Estes

    Does anyone have any information about the Luises (Luii?). I know de Varre was a White Lion member (whatever that means aside from one of the many Lodges), and de Estes was the Rep at the GC, but it seems as though there's no other info about these guys (though, I imagine they're Portuguese (although, I suppose the later could be from Northern Italy?).

    Just another one of my random thread-pullings into the metaplot that I can't find an end to. :^)

    Thanks in advance.


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  • #2
    I don't think there's much beyond dates. The Revised OoH mentions de Estes being involved in 'The Lodge Wars of Tuscany'. Guide to the Traditions mentions that following the Great Betrayal the Solifcati 'leader' was assassinated, presumably that'd be de Estes.

    I kinda wonder if they're meant to be the same person or there was some kind of misunderstanding during writing? From a narrative perspective it seems kinda odd to give two barely referenced characters who both hold more or less the same role, the same first name.


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    • #3
      I don't think they are. In Sorcerers' Crusade, de Varre is active in 1315 when he founds the first incarnation of the Solificati, and the Lodge Wars are from 1420-45 with de Estes uniting the Lodges and turning them back into the Solificati.


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      • #4
        Originally posted by Arzie View Post
        I don't think they are. In Sorcerers' Crusade, de Varre is active in 1315 when he founds the first incarnation of the Solificati, and the Lodge Wars are from 1420-45 with de Estes uniting the Lodges and turning them back into the Solificati.
        Probably not, but that's not much of a hurdle. Lots of mages are unnaturally old.


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        • #5
          I don't think so. M:SC notes under de Estes that all leaders of the Solificati took the name 'Luis' in honour? ( I don't have the book with me to double check the right phrasing) of de Varre.

          I think this is silly as a title would be more appropriate (Like de Estes's 'Diplomate'), but they do make it clear that de Varre and de Estes are two different individuals.


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          • #6
            Originally posted by Arzie View Post
            I don't think so. M:SC notes under de Estes that all leaders of the Solificati took the name 'Luis' in honour? ( I don't have the book with me to double check the right phrasing) of de Varre.
            You're right, it does.


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            • #7
              Along the similar lines, was the While Lion Guild opposed to the Golden Guild Alliance? Or a part of it?

              If against, why did they fight against each other? I imagine the White Lion Guild were Solificati, and the GGA were Craftmasons. I imagine in 1250, there wasn't /that/ much to fight against and they were pretty much both Order of Reason types.
              Last edited by Arzie; 11-17-2018, 12:35 AM. Reason: Further Thoughts.


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              • #8
                Originally posted by Arzie View Post
                Along the similar lines, was the While Lion Guild opposed to the Golden Guild Alliance? Or a part of it?
                I think the former. The timeline is quite clearly written. The write-up in the Solificati section seems to contradict that but... it's kinda badly written.

                Also, the GGA is called that because it united three guilds with 'Golden' in their titles, so presumably the White Lions wouldn't be in it.


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                • #9
                  I have to agree, but I also have to wonder what the argument was about. It seems to have been a Solificati-Craftmason war, but at the time, both are more or less Order of Reason groups (though the OoR hadn't been formed yet), and their descendants would, in a way, both be found in ItX. They also each have different MOs, as well. Alchemists and Craftsmen. What could they be arguing about?


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