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Hypernarrative Difficulty Reduction vs Making Coincidental

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  • Hypernarrative Difficulty Reduction vs Making Coincidental

    M20 introduced the idea hypernarrative as a way to reduce difficulty of magical acts. By having an effect fit within things like movie tropes (the gun shot that ignites a gas tank as a cover for a Forces 3/Prime 2 effect) the difficulty of an effect is reduced by 1. I thought that hypernarrative helped make an effect go from vulgar to coincidental but offered no further difficulty reduction until I saw it on the storyteller screen. Does tapping hypernarrative do both or is the -1 difficulty just reflecting moving from vulgar to coincidental?

  • #2
    Originally posted by PhillyCuriosity View Post
    M20 introduced the idea hypernarrative as a way to reduce difficulty of magical acts. By having an effect fit within things like movie tropes (the gun shot that ignites a gas tank as a cover for a Forces 3/Prime 2 effect) the difficulty of an effect is reduced by 1. I thought that hypernarrative helped make an effect go from vulgar to coincidental but offered no further difficulty reduction until I saw it on the storyteller screen. Does tapping hypernarrative do both or is the -1 difficulty just reflecting moving from vulgar to coincidental?
    Yep, Pg. 503.


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    • #3
      I think this is more me shouting at the developers "y u do this".... seems like a bonus on a bonus.

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      • #4
        If an Effect is already Coincidental, you can't get a bonus from a Hypernarrative making it Coincidental. Frankly, the reduction of difficulty aspect of Hypernarrative is by far the more common benefit to encounter.

        And personally, my own “y u do this” moment is with the difficulty reduction built into Coincidental effects: you already get a massive benefit in seriously scaled-back Paradox; reducing the difficulty on top of that feels like double-dipping to me. In my own games, there is no difference in difficulty between Coincidental, Vulgar, and Vulgar With Witnesses; that distinction is reflected solely in terms of how much Paradox you get. This has the added benefit that rules for such things as Hypernarratives and Mythic Threads feel less conflicted: they're more clearly representing two completely unrelated benefits.


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        • #5
          Originally posted by Dataweaver View Post
          In my own games, there is no difference in difficulty between Coincidental, Vulgar, and Vulgar With Witnesses (...)
          What is the base difficulty for Magick Effects in your games ?

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          • #6
            4 + Highest Sphere, the same as for Vulgar Effects in the official rules: Coincidental castings aren't any easier, just less likely to cause Paradox; and Witnesses don't make matters harder, just more Paradox-prone.

            In that regard, I also replace the Domino Effect with a Paradox-based alternative: the third and fourth Coincidental castings with Witnesses in a scene are treated as Vulgar Without Witnesses (that is, they generate an extra point of Paradox, both on a success and on a botch); and after that, all castings in the scene become Vulgar With Witnesses (doubling the Paradox accrual on a botch). Think of it sort of like a traffic light: when Witnesses are present, the first two Coincidences get a green light; the next two face a yellow light; and everything after that is up against a red light. (Without Witnesses, you can perform Coincidental magic to your heart's content.)
            Last edited by Dataweaver; 12-05-2018, 03:19 PM.


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            • #7
              Out of curiosity, all coincidental spells or just the ones strange enough to build up suspicion?


              Mage: The Ice-ension: An Epic Game of Reality on the Rink

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Dataweaver View Post
                Coincidental castings aren't any easier, just less likely to cause Paradox
                How so? Difficulty and odds of paradox are linked at least in terms of botching.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Ramnesis View Post
                  Out of curiosity, all coincidental spells or just the ones strange enough to build up suspicion?
                  That depends on the Storyteller. Basically, whenever the Storyteller would have invoked the standard Domino Effect, he intensifies the effective Vulgarity instead.

                  Originally posted by PhillyCuriosity View Post
                  How so? Difficulty and odds of paradox are linked at least in terms of botching.
                  We're discussing my house rule here, so I'll respond in that context. A Coincidental effect generates zero Paradox on a success and 1 Paradox per required Sphere rank on a botch; a Vulgar effect generates one Paradox on a success and one Paradox plus one more Paradox per Sphere rank on a botch; thus, even if Coincidental and Vulgar Effects have the same Difficulty (which is the heart of my house rule), the Coincidental effect is less likely to cause Paradox.


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                  • #10
                    The frequency doesn't seem to be changing but the severity is, got it.

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                    • #11
                      Frequency, too: Coincidental magic doesn't generate Paradox on a success; Vulgar magic does. That alone makes Paradox more frequent with Vulgar magic than with Coincidental magic.


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