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  • Time Stop

    A Time Stop spell would require Time 3,4 or 5? The chart presented in M20 doesn't include stopping time. Also, it is not possible to stop everything around the mage? Looks like a 25'x25' area would require 8 successes, is that right?

    If I got it right, there is no way a time stop spell can be casted in combat by anyone lower than a master. How much successes, and dots in Time, would a D&D-like Time Stop spell cost?

  • #2
    I have similar question . Which low level (3-) Canon ( or fan-made ) Rotes or Effects can make a mage add his mental actions ? I remember Time 3 in M20 can't really do this ...

    I want to cast multiple spells ...If I also need Adept or above ...To be honest this demand is a little high .
    Last edited by Rock113; 12-20-2018, 03:53 AM.

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    • #3
      It's Time 5. You step outside the flow of time so you're not stopping time for anyone else. Just stepping outside it.

      You can't use other magic while outside times flow. But you can physically attack people.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Rock113 View Post
        I have similar question . Which low level (3-) Canon ( or fan-made ) Rotes or Effects can make a mage add his mental actions ? I remember Time 3 in M20 can't really do this ...
        Where does M20 say this?. It's my understanding that you can totally get extra mental actions trough Time 3 - you just need to frame it properly, for instance if you want to talk super fast with someone you need to acelerate the other person too or she won't undestand a word of what you're saying..

        I want to cast multiple spells ...If I also need Adept or above ...To be honest this demand is a little high .
        Perhaps your confusion it's that you think spells are "mental actions". They are most certainly not. Arete rolls aren't "mental actions" (in the sense Disciplines understands them). You don't cast spells with your mind but with your Avatar, and thus these are "Avatar actions". Avatars move at their own pace and this can't be multiplied by Time 3 asceleration.

        Casting multiple spells in a single turn ain't easy, if even possible

        Originally posted by Lord Revan
        A Time Stop spell would require Time 3,4 or 5? The chart presented in M20 doesn't include stopping time.
        Time 3 to slow time.

        Time 4 to stop (freeze) time in an area.

        Time 5 to move outside the time stream becoming "immune to time"

        Originally posted by Lord Revan
        Also, it is not possible to stop everything around the mage? Looks like a 25'x25' area would require 8 successes, is that right?
        Yes and no. The table does say that (and remember that you need to add a Duration), but there are fundamental differences between stoping time with time 4 and moving outside of time with Time 5 that you need to ponder.

        Let's see what HDYDT has to say about these effects:

        Originally posted by HDYDT; Freeze Time
        With Time 4 alone, the mage could freeze a single moment of time – a falling glass, gunshot, car crash, etc. – for several turns, as described above. If an outside party (that is, someone other than the mage who cast the spell) interacts with the subject of that “moment,” then it ends immediately. Once the Effect’s Duration expires, the participants in that moment continue on whatever path they’d been headed when they were frozen. If the mage acts to change their trajectories – hauling one car’s steering wheel hard to the right, for example – then they follow the new path of action.

        The base number of successes required to successfully perform that action depends upon the size of the action frozen, as determined by the Feats of Time Magick chart; suspending a falling teacup would be a Simple feat (one success), while freezing an impending trainwreck would be Mighty (five to 10 successes) or even Outlandish (more than 10 successes).
        If you freeze time with Time 4 you don't get to be "spared" of the effects, you get frozen too. Presumably adding Life 3 or perhaps Correspondence 4 to Time 4 you could move within a bubble of frozen time without being affected by it (and without breaking it), but this is the hard way to stop time.

        Originally posted by HDYDT; Sidestepping Time
        Using Time 5, the Time Master can step laterally outside the timestream, essentially immunizing herself to any external phenomenon. Things going on inside of her (poison, disease, injury, etc.) continue to occur at their usual rate, but the world outside her touch does not affect her unless she chooses to interact with it… and even then, it doesn’t experience the effects of her touch until the Effect’s duration ends. Lee Ann, for example, could walk up to someone, punch him in the gut, and walk away; her victim, meanwhile, feels a sudden blow to the gut, but never sees Lee Ann coming or going.
        Now, that sounds more like D&D Time Stop, doesn't it?

        With Time 5 you can get "outside of time", so to speak. By getting out of the time stream you effectively "stop time" in all the universe, except you're not really stoping time but rather acting out of synch with the universe. The spell affects yourself and the people you chose (by expending aditional successes), not all the universe, but it "seems" like time has stop for everyone else and it's a "Time Stop" in all but name.

        Originally posted by Lord Revan
        If I got it right, there is no way a time stop spell can be casted in combat by anyone lower than a master. How much successes, and dots in Time, would a D&D-like Time Stop spell cost?
        Since the closest to D&D "Time Stop" it's Time 5 "sidestepping time", that's 3 successes as per the "Feats of Time Magick Table". That's it, it's quite easy (for a Master).

        However:

        Originally posted by HDYDT; Sidestepping Time
        As a rule, you can sidestep time only on a turn-by-turn basis. Long-term time-travel is handled below. For an additional two successes and an additional Paradox point per person, the Master can bring another character along with her. Mages in “sidestep mode” cannot use magick. Although the characters may affect anything they physically touch, the powers of the universe move at their own speed, not at the speed of a mage outside of time.

        Mages in “sidestep mode” cannot use magick. Although the characters may affect anything they physically touch, the powers of the universe move at their own speed, not at the speed of a mage outside of time.
        Note that the mage that "Stops Time" in this fashion can't cast any spell while the time holds still. Again, the Avatar moves at it's own pace.

        ​This is a harder version of a previous rule. Previous rules stated than the mage casting the effect can't use magick, but nothing said that other mages were equally impaired (and thus sidesteping time with a Wonder allowed to also sidestep the iron-clad rule against casting more than one spell per turn, because *you* weren't the one who casted the spell). HDYDT does imply that you can't cast as long as you're sidesteping time regardles on who casted the spell. One could even argue that you can't use a Wonder either, depending if you think a Wonder activation counts as "an use of magick"
        Last edited by Aleph; 12-20-2018, 12:00 PM.

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        • #5
          Aleph excellent explanation!
          Then it looks like there are only 2 options: Time 4 and a shitload of successes (10+ so you can stop a large area) or Time 5 and not being able to cast spells.
          The first can't be used in combat, the other can..

          Either aren't like the D&D spell, so i think it is out of question.

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          • #6
            Well...since Time 4 also allow to prepare spells in advance to be released with a trigger, you could try to use option 1 in combat by preparing it beforehand (altrough you need to find a way of not being affected by the area of effect).

            It wouldn't be much worse than preparing a spell slot trough a Long Rest...except that the ritual probably ain't going to be much of a rest, and it may take longer than 8 hours depending on the mage's power. Also it counts against the number of spells you have to concentrate upon, unless you lock it.
            Last edited by Aleph; 12-20-2018, 04:10 PM.

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            • #7
              I'm wondering how other spheres could simulate the effect of time stop.
              Mind could make everybody still, just like Charles Xavier from X-men movies do.
              Maybe Life could do it too, paralyzing just like a frightened goat do when in face of danger.

              Although both effects wouldn't stop objects and energies, just living beings..

              It could definitely be made with Forces, stopping motion of everything.Not in an atomic scale stopping molecular vibrations, that would require Forces 5. Just movement of large (visible) bodies.

              I wonder how much successes and sphere dots would be necessary for each of them...

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              • #8
                Mind 4 to command motionlessness
                Life 4 to stop the body from moving
                Forces 4 to inverse half of the kinetic energy, thus canceling the other half.
                Prime 4 to destroy every kinetic Forces pattern (maybe Forces 1+ is necessary)
                Entropy 5 (with Mind 1 or 2) to destroy thoughts involving movement.
                Matter 4 to encase in solidified air
                Spirit 4 to let a spirit do the trick


                So, this Zen Master walks up to a hot dog stand and says: "Make me one with everything!"

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Nonsense View Post
                  Mind 4 to command motionlessness
                  Life 4 to stop the body from moving
                  Forces 4 to inverse half of the kinetic energy, thus canceling the other half.
                  Prime 4 to destroy every kinetic Forces pattern (maybe Forces 1+ is necessary)
                  Entropy 5 (with Mind 1 or 2) to destroy thoughts involving movement.
                  Matter 4 to encase in solidified air
                  Spirit 4 to let a spirit do the trick
                  I can see Mind 4 doing that, since complete control demand this level.
                  But Life 3 ia enough to control body functions and Forces 2 is enough to control movement (flight by changing gravity/inersia requires Forces 2).
                  Didn't know Prime could do that.
                  Matter 3 already can change state of matter, so gas into solido would require this level.
                  Agree on Spirit and Entropy.

                  I guess that the required successes would depend on the shpere used and how it's done. I can see Forces 2 stopping everything in 1m ( ~3feet) per success

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Lord Revan View Post

                    I can see Mind 4 doing that, since complete control demand this level.
                    But Life 3 ia enough to control body functions and Forces 2 is enough to control movement (flight by changing gravity/inersia requires Forces 2).
                    Didn't know Prime could do that.
                    Matter 3 already can change state of matter, so gas into solido would require this level.
                    Agree on Spirit and Entropy.

                    Since
                    Prime can obliterate Patterns into quint it is only a matter of targeting.
                    I guess that the required successes would depend on the shpere used and how it's done. I can see Forces 2 stopping everything in 1m ( ~3feet) per success
                    Forces 2 sounds reasonable to immobilize one person maybe two, but if you go larger than that I would require 4 dots.
                    You have a point regarding Life..


                    So, this Zen Master walks up to a hot dog stand and says: "Make me one with everything!"

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Nonsense View Post

                      Forces 2 sounds reasonable to immobilize one person maybe two, but if you go larger than that I would require 4 dots.
                      You have a point regarding Life..
                      Well, if Forces 2 can do it with 1 people than it can do with more. It would just require more successes. Maybe Forces 4 could do it easier, requiring less successes on Arete.
                      Also, Forces is the best option, because it could stop everything almost like the Time spell. Objects from moving, energies, even sound or explosions, everything could be stopped. It could even freeze a tv screen with the same image..

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Lord Revan View Post

                        Well, if Forces 2 can do it with 1 people than it can do with more. It would just require more successes. Maybe Forces 4 could do it easier, requiring less successes on Arete.
                        Also, Forces is the best option, because it could stop everything almost like the Time spell. Objects from moving, energies, even sound or explosions, everything could be stopped. It could even freeze a tv screen with the same image..
                        At some point minor forces stop being minor and thus fall out of the purview of controlling minor forces (which is the description of Forces 2).
                        On successes: I would demand 2-3 successes for the effect itself adding 1 success per person or object.

                        On the TV screen: it depends on the technology used. Old screens would go black if the ray illuminating the screen is stopped.


                        So, this Zen Master walks up to a hot dog stand and says: "Make me one with everything!"

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Nonsense View Post

                          At some point minor forces stop being minor and thus fall out of the purview of controlling minor forces (which is the description of Forces 2).
                          On successes: I would demand 2-3 successes for the effect itself adding 1 success per person or object.

                          On the TV screen: it depends on the technology used. Old screens would go black if the ray illuminating the screen is stopped.
                          I just read the Forces description in M20 again and you are right. Forces 2 affects small areas up to 20 feet or less. However, Forces 3 is able to affect "several dozen yards" wich is more than enough for an effect like this. Forces 4 seems to affect up to a mile or more.

                          I wish M20 had an area per success table or example tough.

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                          • #14
                            I'm resurrecting this thread to ask opinions on how would a Forces effect to "stop time" would work. The objective is stop everything from moving. But not everything like atoms, but everything that we have o our scale. So no need for Forces 5, something with Forces 2 or 3, maybe canceling all kinetic energy around the mage? Could a explosion be stopped (maybe if not in a kinetic energy scientific explanation, but something like stopping Forces to follow their natural flow)? What it would look like?

                            To which degrew would you allow things to stop with an effect like that?

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Lord Revan View Post
                              I'm resurrecting this thread to ask opinions on how would a Forces effect to "stop time" would work. The objective is stop everything from moving. But not everything like atoms, but everything that we have o our scale. So no need for Forces 5, something with Forces 2 or 3, maybe canceling all kinetic energy around the mage? Could a explosion be stopped (maybe if not in a kinetic energy scientific explanation, but something like stopping Forces to follow their natural flow)? What it would look like?

                              To which degrew would you allow things to stop with an effect like that?
                              Certainly. Not stopping the movement of atoms is no issue, since that isn't covered by kinetic energy (atomic vibrations are heat. And the consistency of single atoms is the nuclear force. Messing with that would be level 5, and...have nasty results).

                              The question is, *how* to treat the kinetic energy in order to stop everything.
                              * Just eliminating/destroying it outright would require Forces and Prime.
                              * Storing/absorbing it in something else might require Correspondence in order to transfer it in between.
                              * Countering the kinetic force to nullify it with an equal opposite kinetic force might again require Forces and Prime - after that's happened you can just take the new kinetic force that's building up due to gravity and just repeatedly turn it into an upward direction in nudges to keep on nullifying it.


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