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  • Extra actions via Life/Forces/Prime

    Tell me what you guys think of this.

    Life 3/Forces 2/Prime 2. Life being the Mage's body, Forces representing an increase in velocity, and Prime charging the whole thing up with energy. Spend one point of Quintessence per extra action you take, up to a maximum of your Arete rating.

    I don't know about you guys, but using Time and rolling your Arete for extra actions (at a cost of one per two) is lame. Not only that, Time should not be the -only- way a Mage can get extra actions. I think with an Effect like this one, a properly built Mage could actually hang with other supernaturals in a scrap, considering how Rage and Celerity work.

  • #2
    Hm, maybe you need to add mind 1 or else for every two actions you get a +1 to difficulty to them? (Your mind is running normal speed...but your actions aren't! Time has the benefit of everything you doing seems to be normal)

    I'd say life 3 (You're only affecting yourself but this is quite a bit) Forces 2, Prime 2, possibly mind 1 like mentioned. Every success scored on the roll lets you spend 1 quintessence for 1 extra action. I'd let it have a duration as well but you need to constantly spend quintessence and you still have the limit.

    If you got 3 successes (And have 4 arete) you'd only be able to get up to 3 extra actions, for 3 quintessence, for the entire duration and you'd need to spend more quintessence if you wanted to do this again.

    As long as you only do 2 or so actions this is prob coincidental, unless your paradigm dictates you be on fire for this. Or some other elemental thing.

    IDK, maybe costing quintessence is too much for this. Maybe just a flat 1 to activate the effect and maybe another 1 everytime you decide to take extra actions (assuming you agree with my duration idea). I'd still limit it to arete/succeses.

    It isn't Time 4 but life 3, forces 2, and prime 2 (and possibly mind 1) is quite a bit unless you built your character for this specific build.

    Maybe if it doesn't cost quintessence it does the normal "Every 2 successes = 1 action" thing time 4 does.

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    • #3
      I don't think Life 3 is enough to create actual extra actions. I'd add Mind 1 to it. Your body is faster that much, and you can process it. This is the kind of effect that demands quintessence for its sheer power, though I wouldn't charge 1:1.

      Forces is in a similar situation, but with 2 you're working only with what you already have. Might need 3 and draw from a source (quintessence's the top-of-mind candidate as usual).

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      • #4
        That said, I have a suggestion for you: the game already has a "natural" system of multiple actions.
        Enhancing THAT is so much subtler you will probably be able to pull it off as coincidental most of the time, while actually adding actions would be devilishly vulgar.

        Sphere-wise they're identical. At my table we usually work extra actions coincidentally with magick that cancels flurry penalties. WIth 5 successes plus duration you get to cancel 5 dice of penalties. More than enough to do 2 actions per turn with little to no hindrance.

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        • #5
          I'd say Life3/Forces 2 only. If you get more than 3 acrions, then you might need Mind 1. Jo need for Prime if you are going to spend Quintessence in the process.

          The cost in Quintessence might be 1 for each time the mage wants to speed himself (in the case of a duration spell) independently of the number of turns he gets.
          Also, more than 2 actions and this becomes vulgar

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          • #6
            I like the 'canceling dice penalty' idea.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Chad_Bitchin View Post
              Tell me what you guys think of this.

              Life 3/Forces 2/Prime 2. Life being the Mage's body, Forces representing an increase in velocity, and Prime charging the whole thing up with energy.

              Not only that, Time should not be the -only- way a Mage can get extra actions.
              OK, cool, not a bad justification (albeit mechanistic, way over simplified, and not considering of alternate paradigms at all) and a very good point about the Time sphere.


              Originally posted by Chad_Bitchin View Post
              Spend one point of Quintessence per extra action you take, up to a maximum of your Arete rating.

              I don't know about you guys, but using Time and rolling your Arete for extra actions (at a cost of one per two) is lame.
              Aaaaaiiieeee! Absolutely not! This method is much more effective than the Time sphere so why would anyone use the Time one? Alternate spheres to get the _same_ effect is cool, alternate spheres to get a substantially better effect is game breaking!

              Bad Chad!

              Originally posted by Jihelu View Post
              I like the 'canceling dice penalty' idea.
              Me too! It's an excellent way to get around the multiple actions rules without invoking the time sphere

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Dogstar View Post

                OK, cool, not a bad justification (albeit mechanistic, way over simplified, and not considering of alternate paradigms at all) and a very good point about the Time sphere.




                Aaaaaiiieeee! Absolutely not! This method is much more effective than the Time sphere so why would anyone use the Time one? Alternate spheres to get the _same_ effect is cool, alternate spheres to get a substantially better effect is game breaking!

                Bad Chad!
                Well tjis effect requires more spheres than just Time 3, that's a drawback.
                But I agree that the ammount of extra actions should follow successes, not quintessence expenditure


                Originally posted by Dogstar View Post
                Me too! It's an excellent way to get around the multiple actions rules without invoking the time sphere
                So, 3 successes give 2 actions, 6 give 3 and so on? Actions without penalties, that is.

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                • #9
                  I'd like to avoid chance being the determinant for this. Here's why.

                  Willy Werewolf spends 3 Rage, gets 3 Rage actions.

                  Billy Brujah spends 3 blood, gets 3 Celerity actions.

                  I feel like Andy Akashic should be able to do the same thing.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Chad_Bitchin View Post
                    I'd like to avoid chance being the determinant for this. Here's why.

                    Willy Werewolf spends 3 Rage, gets 3 Rage actions.

                    Billy Brujah spends 3 blood, gets 3 Celerity actions.

                    I feel like Andy Akashic should be able to do the same thing.
                    Mages are not geared to do that so easily. Roll magick = get as many extra actions is the straightforward method. Gaming the rules of the world (like the extra actions setup I proposed) is roundabout but incredibly safe and extended.

                    Getting effects without actually casting them each time will always be roundabout, especially with vulgar effects.
                    Something like "burn Q get A" would, at best, be part of an ongoing effect of outlandish proportions, demanding a dozen successes just on the quality of the effect, and whenever you burn any amount of Q to get more actions you accrue paradox, which won't fade while the main effect is up, and whose usage with witnesses evokes Disbelief. On top of the usual difficulty adders for managing several active effects at once.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Synapse View Post

                      Mages are not geared to do that so easily. Roll magick = get as many extra actions is the straightforward method. Gaming the rules of the world (like the extra actions setup I proposed) is roundabout but incredibly safe and extended.

                      Getting effects without actually casting them each time will always be roundabout, especially with vulgar effects.
                      Something like "burn Q get A" would, at best, be part of an ongoing effect of outlandish proportions, demanding a dozen successes just on the quality of the effect, and whenever you burn any amount of Q to get more actions you accrue paradox, which won't fade while the main effect is up, and whose usage with witnesses evokes Disbelief. On top of the usual difficulty adders for managing several active effects at once.
                      Huh.

                      I think I get what you're saying.

                      How about this then. You roll your Arete to establish the duration of the thing, and during that duration (probably a success or two or whatever, so like from one turn to a day or whatever) you can spend Q to get extra actions the way werewolves/vamps do.

                      As for the paradox... Nah. :P Not in my game. I'm not really hardcore on my players about that in the first place. I think I'll keep it to the original rule, were it's only vulgar if you burn for like three extra actions in a turn.

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                      • #12
                        I don't see how spending Quintessence is related to how much exta actions the mage will get. It's not that the mage needs more fuel (I'd say that he wouldn't even need any), but he needs his acceleration spell to be well made. Just as the number of successes determine how fast you can fly with Forces (HDYDT), it should also say how fast you fight.

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                        • #13
                          It's not that it -has- to be related. It's more of a balancing act for yours truly.

                          The problem is that I have a mixed group of 'supernaturals,' and most have extra action rules that behave consistently. If you're a Werewolf, you can spend half your Rage in a round. If you're a vampire, you can spend your Celerity in blood points every round.

                          I'm trying to build something for my Mage that works like that. This 'spend Q for extra actions up to a limit of your Arete' keeps a check on the number of extra actions they can take, and it takes their 'fuel' stat into account in the same way it does for the others. So I can balance encounters against something other than a random dice roll.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Chad_Bitchin View Post
                            I'd like to avoid chance being the determinant for this. Here's why.

                            Willy Werewolf spends 3 Rage, gets 3 Rage actions.

                            Billy Brujah spends 3 blood, gets 3 Celerity actions.

                            I feel like Andy Akashic should be able to do the same thing.

                            Willy werewolf gets punched in the face and gains a point of rage.. do you think andy Akashic should get a point of quint anytime he gets upset?

                            Billy Brujah runs low on blood and falls into torpor. Do you feel that when Andy akashic runs out of Quint he should either fall into Torpor or go cannibal?


                            Any Akashic spend a couple minutes going through his katas before fight.. and has many more actions than either of them for zero quint. Mages get more out of prep than any other splat.

                            That being said Life 3 by itself should be able to get you extra actions. Entropy can just reduce all the penalties of "natural" extra actions, Forces by itself.. maybe?

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Lian View Post


                              Willy werewolf gets punched in the face and gains a point of rage.. do you think andy Akashic should get a point of quint anytime he gets upset?

                              Billy Brujah runs low on blood and falls into torpor. Do you feel that when Andy akashic runs out of Quint he should either fall into Torpor or go cannibal?


                              Any Akashic spend a couple minutes going through his katas before fight.. and has many more actions than either of them for zero quint. Mages get more out of prep than any other splat.
                              Heh. This is the part where I reveal how fuckin ignorant I am on Mage shit.

                              How -do- Mages get Quintessence back?

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