Originally posted by atamajakki
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Non-traditional pagan Dreamspeaker question
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Originally posted by Heavy Arms View PostNothing she listed is exclusively or even primarily Hermetic.
But the rest it's prety univesal, yeah.Last edited by Aleph; 05-28-2019, 07:38 AM.
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So much unecessary imperativeness.
"oh noes this stereotype is racist"
His game. The guy is informed. No need to pester further.
That also ignores that the archetype itself has worth in the game. Semiotics are a thing, you know? Being overly concerned about it to the point of hindering the game will help absolutely no one.
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Originally posted by KingJohn View Post
So I could use fortune-telling and new age spiritualism as a theme while also pursuing mediumship and other activities, which would give my character the same free reign a shaman would have?
What is tolerance? It is the consequence of humanity. We are all formed of frailty and error; let us pardon reciprocally each other's folly. That is the first law of nature.
Voltaire, "Tolerance" (1764)
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Originally posted by Aleph View PostI'm prety sure that "Play someone who consults an obsidian mirror and the angels of the celestial bodies like Dee did" it's primarily Hermetic, in particular because Dee was know for studying Hermetic phylosophy in RL
Originally posted by Synapse View PostNo need to pester further.
That also ignores that the archetype itself has worth in the game.
Being overly concerned about it to the point of hindering the game will help absolutely no one.
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Originally posted by Heavy Arms View PostThey're all "Hermetic" practices because the Order actively appropriates stuff from other groups into their idealized unified theory of magic.
Nothing she listed is exclusively or even primarily Hermetic.
I would argue the at the Hermetics are the primary inheritors of the Western occult traditions with other groups having a piece here or there.. but yes even if you did make a Virtual adept who talks to angels on his Obsidian Mirror app on the trinary the response to "how should I play a Romani Mage" shouldn't be "Play something WHITER you can't possibly understand"
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Originally posted by Lian View Post
I would argue the at the Hermetics are the primary inheritors of the Western occult traditions with other groups having a piece here or there.. but yes even if you did make a Virtual adept who talks to angels on his Obsidian Mirror app on the trinary the response to "how should I play a Romani Mage" shouldn't be "Play something WHITER you can't possibly understand"
Remi. she/her. game designer.
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Originally posted by Lian View PostI would argue the at the Hermetics are the primary inheritors of the Western occult traditions with other groups having a piece here or there..
What argument is here for the Hermetics? That since they appropriated and popularized somethings they "own" those things over the people that have been doing them for thousands of years longer? The Hermetics didn't "inherit" anything. They borrowed, appropriated, stole, or whatever things from other groups.
...the response to "how should I play a Romani Mage" shouldn't be "Play something WHITER you can't possibly understand"
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Originally posted by atamajakki View Post
The argument isn’t “you’re too white to play a Romani character,” it’s “there’s basically no good reason for a white person to play a magical stereotype that white people pushed onto the Romani.” Like, that’s the entire discussion here; the “gypsy fortune-teller” is a racist trope, not an authentic spiritual belief structure.
IT is and rather than help someone come up with something that actually someone might learn about a marginalized culture and not stick to painful stereotypes. Your response was "just use these standard Western occult practices"
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If your only point now is that you don't like how Remi said something we all apparently agree on, rather than any objection to the fundamental issue, can we just move on? It's not helpful to the OP for this to go around and around either.
Yes, it's better to help be more constructive, but that goes for everyone. You're not living up to the bar you are complaining Remi didn't hit, so what's the end goal here? To just derail this until it's locked? How does, "I'm going to be as big of an ass as I think I can get away with to you about all this," demonstrate, "it's better to try to include more charitable reading and positive information in your posts," instead of just make it look like... well... your goal isn't to suggest better ways of getting the point across?
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Not sure if this has been written earlier in the thread but if you want to play a norse mage i suggest taking a look at the Vaeldermen in DA:Mage.
Their entire fellowship (tradition) is built around the norse culture and sacrifice for power.
To be fair that fellowships magick is based around personal power and personal sacrifice, so i'm not sure if an external animistic paradigm is compatible. But at least you can look for cool rotes.
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The Vaeldermen mostly got split up between the Verbena and Euthanatos, so it's a bit of a mix for using them for a Dreamspeaker despite the Norse themes. I think one of the reasons most of us skipped them is that Dead Magic II covers a lot of it (including having Vaeldermen rotes with modern versions), so it's a bit redundant.
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I might give 19th century spiritualism a try. It's the precursor to the New Age movement, in the sense that it was the populist and idea-blending of many mystical concepts from throughout the world. That spiritualists used seances and other forms of mediumship, as well as fortune telling, can be helpful. There's something, further, to be said about the role of "Ascended Masters" in the discussion of Shamanism or other spirit-work.
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