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  • Getting Spirits rigth

    Hello there,
    I'm planing to run my first Mage The Ascencion game soon and I'd like to utilize spirits.

    The thing is I'm way more familiar with spirits in the nWoD/CoD. And while I love those, I'd like to try to use spirits as they were presented back in the old days.

    So I'd be really thankful if someone could help me and explain the differences to me.

    Here is what I think I got so far:
    -The Essence Junkie aspect dosn't seem to exist in oWoD?
    -Spirits are a bit more friendly in general and have more of a good/bad dichotomy as opposed to the more neutral to hostile nature of the CoD?
    -Also Totem Spirit seems to be more of a specific Rank? that certain spirits have, not just an attribute for whatever spirit a werewolf pack makes their totem?
    -In kind of the same vein, there seems to be a top tier for most spirits? For example there are bear spirits, but there is also just Bear who is not tied to a specific region?( who would then be a Totem Spirit?)

    Also two specific questions:
    • Can spirits become more powerful by devouring other spirits and is it something they actively pursue in the oWoD? (I think no)
    • Are all spirits tied to either the wyld weaver or wyrm?
    Thanks for any helpful answers in advance already!

  • #2
    Originally posted by nobby View Post
    -The Essence Junkie aspect dosn't seem to exist in oWoD?
    I don't think so, but I don't know enough about nWoD to know what that is.

    Spirits are a bit more friendly in general and have more of a good/bad dichotomy as opposed to the more neutral to hostile nature of the CoD?
    Spirits need to be addressed in a case by case basis. While not all spirits can be considered "individuals" each type of spirit has it's own nature that indicates how would it react.

    However this nature can easily err more towards a blue/orange morality. Not all spirits are good/bad.

    Spirits in mage are, in many ways, concepts given form. They follow the nature of their concept and this can create odd interactions. For instance: A spirit of pain isn't going to be "nice" (pain it's painfull), except that pain also teaches life lessons and it's important for survival...dealings with a spirit of pain it's almost guaranteed to hurt, but it doesn't need to be bad

    -Also Totem Spirit seems to be more of a specific Rank? that certain spirits have, not just an attribute for whatever spirit a werewolf pack makes their totem?
    It's a bit more vague than a Rank. Most Totems are arround the level of Incarna, but not all Incarna are Totems.

    But in a general way of speaking, yes, Totems are powerful spirits. Not all spirits can grant the benefits of a Totem. In general they're high level beings that can appear in several places at once and generally speak trough avatars (that are not the same as Mage Avatars...except when they are) as their true nature it's too big to be easily understood

    -In kind of the same vein, there seems to be a top tier for most spirits? For example there are bear spirits, but there is also just Bear who is not tied to a specific region?( who would then be a Totem Spirit?)
    This IS very usual, but it's not always the case.

    • Can spirits become more powerful by devouring other spirits and is it something they actively pursue in the oWoD? (I think no)
    Not usually. There are some who do, but they're the exception and this increase in power it's a function of a special power of those spirits and not something all spirits can do

    • Are all spirits tied to either the wyld weaver or wyrm?
    Most certainly not

    In a sense, the Triad it's related to everything in existence. However Triatic Spirits (spirit specifically linked to a member of the Triad) are a very specific kind of spirit.

    Not even in Werewolf are all spirits servants of one member of the Triad. As for Mage: Triatic Spirits are very common in the Middle Umbra. But that's just one slice of the Umbra, there are whole Umbras where mages go and these spirits have little pressence
    Last edited by Aleph; 07-30-2019, 11:31 AM.

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    • #3


      Originally posted by Aleph View Post
      -The Essence Junkie aspect dosn't seem to exist in oWoD?

      I don't think so, but I don't know enough about nWoD to know what that is.

      Basically in nWoD the core motivation of any spirit is to feed on ever more essence. Which it does best by feeding of corresponding resonance in the material world.

      For example a pain spirit feeds of the resonance created by people being in pain. So it always tries to foster conditions that cause pain and increase peoples pain. It doesn't care about teaching a lesson or similar things. It only wants people to be in as much pain as possible to feed on the resonance.
      (Spirits relationship to essence is not unlike Vampires relationship to blood in that regard, only that different spirits depend on different conditions to get their fix)

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      • #4
        Spirits in OWOD seem to have a bit more personality even if they are still a bit strange, I always go with the spirits who become familiars are usually the more 'normal' ones to begin with and that by being a familiar they 'humanize' a bit more so that you don't end up walking around with a weird blue/orange morality deadpool quirky boi all the time.
        • "Can spirits become more powerful by devouring other spirits and is it something they actively pursue in the oWoD? (I think no)"
        The only mention of spirits getting stronger I even remember is in the Forged by Dragon's Fire book where it mentions one of the reasons to become a familiar is they will 'get stronger in the spirit realm' or something.

        I find this a slight issue because Familiars are generally going to be bound to you unless one of you dies and till then the Familiar is usually limited in how it can actually get to the Spirit Realm (Unless the mage just puts them there every now and then for them, but even then a familiar is a lot weaker than a regular spirit. Maybe its the hella long con idk)

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        • #5
          Speaking of familiars and spirits, does anyone actuallty knows how do familiar regain essence after spending it ? I asked how spirit recover their essence but i haven't really had any clear answers


          .

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          • #6
            I think Forged in Dragon's fire mentions it, they recover Essence after 8 Hours of rest (Or some amount of time like that.)

            There's a loophole where you turn your Familiars essence into quintessence
            use that quintessence to feed it
            They get more later
            Congrats you can sustain any familiar now

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            • #7
              Thank you ! It may not be very pleasent for your familiar though and require precise sphere, oh by the way, what do spirit actually do ?
              I know that those of the high umbra order themselves in court and all, but middle umbra spirit don't seem to do much aside from..existing ? Floating there and there ? I'm not talking abotu bane or pattern spider spirit, but i fail to see how they interact with eachother or just do anything else really.


              .

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              • #8
                I don't think you need any spheres to gather quint from their Essence, they are tied to your soul after all.


                Middle Umbra spirits do....Idk what do regular animals and shit do? Most of the stuff in the Middle Umbra is more wild and animal based so I imagine some of them do animal stuff.

                The more 'people' like spirits do things like: Be the metaphysical protector of an area, hang out with friends, go on quests/journeys, do whatever it is their spirit type says they should probably do, fuck around with the living.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Emerick View Post
                  Thank you ! It may not be very pleasent for your familiar though and require precise sphere, oh by the way, what do spirit actually do ?
                  I know that those of the high umbra order themselves in court and all, but middle umbra spirit don't seem to do much aside from..existing ? Floating there and there ? I'm not talking abotu bane or pattern spider spirit, but i fail to see how they interact with eachother or just do anything else really.
                  I would say that the spirits of the Middle Umbra engage in the eternal ebb and flow of prey and hunter; a stereotypical ecosystem being played out through eternity. That and also replay all those famous stories attributed to the animals in the various folklores of the world. So the stories of the animals of the Chinese years, for instance.

                  I'd even have a boundary area of the High Umbra and Middle Umbra where the various animal personifications can be found. A Beatrix Potter land where the concepts of children's fairy tales and the animals that inhabit them meet and blend together.

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                  • #10
                    [QUOTE=nobby;n1328242]Hello there,
                    -The Essence Junkie aspect dosn't seem to exist in oWoD?
                    Not to the same extent, but they still want the E. especially 'flavored' one from mages.
                    -Spirits are a bit more friendly in general and have more of a good/bad dichotomy as opposed to the more neutral to hostile nature of the CoD?
                    they are more sane would be more correct to say. The good-bad are general division along mythology lines.
                    -Also Totem Spirit seems to be more of a specific Rank? that certain spirits have, not just an attribute for whatever spirit a werewolf pack makes their totem?
                    no, all totem spirits are godlike entities, rank here denotes level or relationship and trust.
                    -In kind of the same vein, there seems to be a top tier for most spirits? For example there are bear spirits, but there is also just Bear who is not tied to a specific region?( who would then be a Totem Spirit?)
                    The Bear would.
                    -Can spirits become more powerful by devouring other spirits and is it something they actively pursue in the oWoD? (I think no)
                    Sure. Depends on the spirits tho.
                    -Are all spirits tied to either the wyld weaver or wyrm?
                    no, only ones living in middle umbra.

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