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  • Training rotes?

    You know, I've always liked Exalted's Tiger Warrior training technique.

    And, wel, this is the thing of NWO, Iterator, or frankly speaking, the Technocracy. No way in hell have they not gotten rotes that let them quickly educate and train up personnel. Thing is, I'm not that familiar with Mage the Ascension. So here's the thing:

    1. I see prime for enchantment. In other words, granting magical effects. Do I need it for a training rote?
    2. Life and Mind is obvious for both physical conditioning and education. But when affecting others, on what level?
    3. If I am simply carrying out mundane increases (I.e. add dots to strength and wits, but no magical powers) how fast am I allowed to make it go?

  • #2
    1. Not always. You need it only if you want to grant magickal powers, Rotes, to normal people (Prime 5, 4 if it has limited uses). This can easily be Focused trough Training (our special training program will teach you the Thunder Fist in two weeks!).

    2. Life 3 can increase Attributes and that can be reasoned as "training".

    But other than that, teaching stuff with magick it's a neglected area. At least I can't remember anything official on the matter other than Grimoires. I imagine you wouldn't need more than Mind 3/Life 3 to teach most stuff. You don't need Prime because you're the one transmiting the knowledge, it's not an Artifact (in this case. You could create a teaching method as an abstract Grimoire of sorts, and that would require Prime)

    3.
    As fast as your imagination wants, up to the "I know kung fu" of Neo. But keep in mind that if it's too fast it can enter in the realm of Vulgar magick. If a scrawny little man enters in your gym and leaves a mr.universe the same day, people would ask questions.
    Last edited by Aleph; 08-20-2019, 12:18 PM.

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    • #3
      Remember that pjo crossover idea?

      Yeah. It's for that.

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      • #4
        I don't think there's anything official. Unofficially, I've done some work on Spellbooks, which I think covers most or all of what you're asking.


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        • #5
          I imagine what they 'learn' would actually go away unless they bought it with EXP (With a discount) like how it mentions using Life 3 to boost your stats (IN HDYDT) will eventually cause pattern bleeding if you don't 'buy it with Exp'. So it would either eventually go away or they would start dying.

          Hopefully the former if they are sleepers

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Accelerator View Post
            Remember that pjo crossover idea?

            Yeah. It's for that.
            Yeah, I kinda guessed it

            As said, there's nothing very "official". Training it's more of an Instrument than a Rote...but this is Mage, inventing your own Rotes Procedures is to be expected.

            Fluff wise: I imagine that the Technocracy accelerated Training programs would take from a week to a year of gruesome "training from hell", depending on the subjects and how Vulgar would be to just "have learnt it" ...

            But there's nothing in the Paradigm against "downloading kung-fu" kind of fast (it would make perfect sense for an It-X cyborg), it's just less likely to be Coincidental (depending on how noticeable are the changes).
            Last edited by Aleph; 08-20-2019, 02:19 PM.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Jihelu View Post
              I imagine what they 'learn' would actually go away unless they bought it with EXP (With a discount) like how it mentions using Life 3 to boost your stats (IN HDYDT) will eventually cause pattern bleeding if you don't 'buy it with Exp'. So it would either eventually go away or they would start dying.

              Hopefully the former if they are sleepers
              It'll be a good way to bring in balance.

              Anyway, I found a syndicate rote. Life 3. But it's... Not very good. Taking 4 weeks and appears to be far more limited.

              I'm thinking of a training program, ranging from encouraging pep talks, perfectly modelled and calculated muscle exercises, to health and diet regimes to make someone bulk up and strengthen at speeds far beyond normal.

              Same as teaching. Maybe it's mental exercises taught by a member of the syndicate. Maybe its using drugs to expand neuroplasticity. Maybe the NWO now has a use for all those old room 101 screens and now rolls them out to subjects in a hypnotic trance. Irregardless, information is pumped in. And it's permanent.

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              • #8
                You might incorporate 'mental training and education' even to the most mundane of training to try and come up with a quasi-IC way of explaining how they get the people to 'spend EXP on it'.
                It's one thing to feel the burn
                It's another thing to NEED the burn.
                (or something like that idk)

                Or to weed out the people who aren't 'willing to try hard enough' or something.

                Alternatively nanomachines that run on Quintessence probably avoid the bleeding.

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                • #9
                  Actually, I see no problem with substituting a Quintessence cost for the XP cost, given an appropriate exchange rate: Quintessence is something that either takes time to harvest or takes an adventure to acquire, much like XP; so getting a permanent “I know Kung Fu” effect by being infused with an appropriate kind of Tass instead of spending XP on it seems like a reasonable tradeoff — especially if the Tass-based approach comes with suitable Mental Flaws. In effect, the “rote” that you're “learning” is essentially a Virtual Enhancement being implanted in your mind.

                  You could even arrange for something that's modular and can be swapped out, letting you customize which rotes you happen to have access to at any given time — just so long as each module's Quintessence cost is paid (plus an additional cost to install a virtual socket in your mind), I don't see how it would be abusive: whoever created the modules would have a vested interest in whatever you're doing with them, which leads to story potential. He might be loaning them to you, in which case you owe him; or you might have stolen them, and he wants them back.


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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Dataweaver View Post
                    Actually, I see no problem with substituting a Quintessence cost for the XP cost, given an appropriate exchange rate: Quintessence is something that either takes time to harvest or takes an adventure to acquire, much like XP; so getting a permanent “I know Kung Fu” effect by being infused with an appropriate kind of Tass instead of spending XP on it seems like a reasonable tradeoff — especially if the Tass-based approach comes with suitable Mental Flaws. In effect, the “rote” that you're “learning” is essentially a Virtual Enhancement being implanted in your mind.

                    You could even arrange for something that's modular and can be swapped out, letting you customize which rotes you happen to have access to at any given time — just so long as each module's Quintessence cost is paid (plus an additional cost to install a virtual socket in your mind), I don't see how it would be abusive: whoever created the modules would have a vested interest in whatever you're doing with them, which leads to story potential. He might be loaning them to you, in which case you owe him; or you might have stolen them, and he wants them back.

                    Isn't this the Background HyperCram?

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                    • #11
                      HyperCram doesn't last very long (Like a scene/till its used?) so it's not as good, but basically.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Jihelu View Post
                        HyperCram doesn't last very long (Like a scene/till its used?) so it's not as good, but basically.
                        Yes. But 1. It's permanent. 2. It's on other people.

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                        • #13
                          I'm proposing several ideas here, but they're all built around the notion of “instant learning is a Virtual Wonder”. Enhancement is essentially “I have a Device built into my body”, with cybernetics being the Iteration X take on the notion and genetic engineering/biomods being the Progenitors take on it. I'm proposing something with the NWO in mind (no pun intended) where the Enhancement is mental rather than physical and follows the variant rules for Wonders with a Virtual Foundation (Book of Secrets) rather than a physical one. Maybe call it “Hyper-Training”? Or maybe “mind mods”.

                          The “modular socket” idea is a separate notion that can be mixed with at least two types of Enhancements: the traditional cybernetics, and the new “hyper-training”, depending on whether the socket is physical or virtual. The intent is somewhere in between Enhancement and Requisitions: the socket means that whatever is plugged in is treated as part of you for the duration; the modules that you plug in to them are something you requisition as needed instead of being something that you always and forever have with you.


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                          • #14
                            How would you reconcile this with Hypercram which seems to hit the narrative function(I believe the Ix book even has a wonder that gives you Hypercram that is used as justiication of downloading skills ala the Matrix). I think something building off of the already existent setup might work better than completely reinventing the wheel(like spent a point of quint to maintain Hypercram or x period of time?) I know there's rotes that say engage with Past lives a well.

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                            • #15
                              The NWO has sleep teaching, like in Brave New World but much more expansive in terms of the kinds of information that can be taught..

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