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  • Book Of The Fallen - Discussion

    M20 Book of the Fallen – Backer PDF going out this week.
    Prepare for impact in 3..2..


    cWoD Dice Probability Chart ||| cWoD Dice Statistics Calculator ||| cWoD Alternative Armor System
    cWoD Alternative Damage Roll System ||| My explanation of cWoD Damage Levels ||| 'Interesting' Strength Attribute Stuff
    EXPLOSIVE cWoD STUFF! ||| How Technocrats don't think they are Mages

  • #2
    Part of me is looking forward to this, another part of me is dreading it.

    Edit: let me unpack that a little, it's great we are getting content but at the same time I've seen nothing in the other M20 products to dissuade me of feeling that this will be nothing but a very wordy cringe filled lecture on the evils of the modern world.
    Last edited by Dwight; 11-05-2019, 12:19 PM.


    Are you on the square?
    Are you on the level?

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    • #3
      I feel the same way.

      On one hand I'd love sets of rules for Nephandi/Evil boys (I'd like to play an infernalist myself, and not as 'I'm super evil' one but a 'I made a /big fucking mistake/ and now I'm trying to fix it) but like Dwight said, I feel like Whitewolf might spend too much time going "haha punch a nazi"

      (Thanks Whitewolf, for personally threatening to fist fight whoever would want to play a nephandi. I forget which book that was in. It reminds me of people in my college classes acting like they would stand up to a terrorist attack and save the day. Get the fuck out of here with that shit)


      Stuff I want:

      How many Nephandi /believe and worship/ their dark masters in a way that isn't just a means to an end? I know it varies by edition and book, but it seems to be that some Nephandi are just 'using' the dark masters as tools of destroying the world, not necessarily because they like them. If anything, the dark ones who break the world down will find the Nephandi their enemy because the dark ones might want to rebuild the world in their image....the Nephandi just want it over.

      But obviously some Nephandi are more into their masters than others seeing as some have True Faith, or does Nephandi Narcissism act so strong they can get true faith from it.

      Can Nephandi be cured? If so, or suggested, can we get some advice on it? Give me some story ideas of a Nephandi's avatar reincarnating and trying to get its user to repent and what not. Or just shut it down, I just want it written down somewhere.

      How can I help get someones soul back together if they sold parts of it?

      Marauder cures. Etc.

      Give me some M20 rules on modern people invoking the names of demons and devils in ways that cause magic. I know older books let you summon demons without needing sorcery or magic, just the know how. Give me suggestions for non traditional devils and demons, like noridc entities or Japanese Yokai. What about the Chinese Diyu, most of them aren't even 'evil' but I imagine a pact with one would technically be 'infernalism'? Would that make the pact not so bad?
      (I imagine Whitewolf would acknowledge a pact with the Diyu/Hell kings but then not mention anything about how they are actually not super terrible, so it would just be a case of 'all infernal pacts are super evil and scary')
      Last edited by Jihelu; 11-05-2019, 07:22 PM.

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      • #4
        Well, just as a reminder, Brucato's take on nephandi is to deliberately push away from "moustache-twirling infernalist" and to focus more on human evils. That the former he always considered to be a boring and shallow take on that faction.

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        • #5
          I'm looking forward to Book of the Fallen. When will it be available for sale on DriveThruRPG? Also, I'm curious to see what (if anything) they'll do with Thelema (non-theistic Satanism).


          It is a far far better thing I do than I have ever done... Sidney Carton’s last line before he goes to the guillotine to save Lucie

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Penelope View Post
            When will it be available for sale on DriveThruRPG?
            "When it's done"

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            • #7
              Originally posted by tasti man LH View Post

              "When it's done"
              Backers are "supposed" to get their pdf for errata "this week"


              Are you on the square?
              Are you on the level?

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Dwight View Post
                Backers are "supposed" to get their pdf for errata "this week"
                Penelope was asking for when the book would be for sale on DRPG. That's not what the backer copies are.

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                • #9
                  tasti man LH thank you. I didn't back the Kickstarter (I think it was years ago).


                  It is a far far better thing I do than I have ever done... Sidney Carton’s last line before he goes to the guillotine to save Lucie

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                  • #10
                    It is available (for backers)

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by tasti man LH View Post
                      Well, just as a reminder, Brucato's take on nephandi is to deliberately push away from "moustache-twirling infernalist" and to focus more on human evils. That the former he always considered to be a boring and shallow take on that faction.
                      my own feelings are mixed, because I liked them as cartoonish world annihilationists AND AS A DISTRACTION. The real evil were the selfish narcissists, or fanatic zealots, among the Traditions and Technocrats who reflected human evils writ large by virtue of what their abilities made them capable of. The comparatively alien threat of the Nephandi was always more flamboyant but did less real harm in the long run. They were the threat that led to witchhunts that did far more harm than they ever could.

                      But Brucato making them the central threat of M20 meant making them more humanly evil rather was absolutely the right call.
                      Last edited by glamourweaver; 11-09-2019, 03:26 PM.


                      Check out my expansion to the Realm of Brass and Shadow

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                      • #12
                        Holy fuck, the foreword and afterword are powerful.


                        Sean K.I.W./Kelly R.A. Steele, Freelance Writer(Feel free to call me Sean, Kelly, Arcane, or Arc)
                        The world is not beautiful, therefore it is.-Keiichi Sigsawa, Kino's Journey
                        Male/neutral pronouns accepted, female pronouns enjoyed.

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                        • #13
                          So.....

                          Is it good or what

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Jihelu View Post
                            So.....

                            Is it good or what
                            I'm only a couple dozen pages in and... I don't know. I'd call it dark. Interesting. Grim. I think it's well written so far, so if that's your litmus test, it's good. Otherwise, the content is the very opposite of good.

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                            • #15
                              I'm still working my way through, and it's entirely possible (likely, even) that I've missed something. That said:

                              I have a game system concern regarding Innocuous Aura: you pay 5 Merit points to be just like someone who isn't a Nephandus?

                              As well, I'm wondering if there's a non-Fallen counterpart to Abyssal Mastery, something that, say, a Dreamspeaker or a Lion of Zion could use: the former to visit the Deep Umbra without risking Disembodiment, and the latter for access to the Sephiroth (if the Qlippoth are real, it implies that the Sephiroth are as well).

                              I'm inclined to scrap Abyssal Lunatic, and instead reconceptualize Morbidity (at least for Nephandi) as a “degrees of Abyssal Lunacy” trait, with the maximum level being equivalent to the Abyssal Lunatic Flaw found in the book. Frankly, “this Flaw makes the character unplayable” doesn't work for me: if the character is such a raving lunatic that he's unplayable, he's a far better match for Morbidity 6 than for a Supernatural Flaw.


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