As there's a big "The major factions have fallen and been reborn for ... version 5" theme going for metaplot and Mage already sort of had that with revised. I'm going to suggest the Technocracy Civil War be front and Center. The Technocracy's fingers are slipping and the world is spiraling out of control into Nihilism. You'll have a playable "good" Technocracy Faction, And maybe the Traditions with an Unplayable "Bad" Technocracy faction perhaps Explicitly Fallen to the Nephandi
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Originally posted by Marko Markoko View PostI myself would llike to see a complete divorce from vampire and the oWoD. I want to see a Mage game that stands on its own. No mixing of character types. No more worrying about compatability or balance between types of supernaturals. No more concern with the history and lore of vampires or werewolves.
Taking Mage to a different publisher would be an essential step in doing that. A game company that can focus on supernatural occult wonder.
This is partially because it was the only one of the original WoD games that was not created by Mark Rein-Hagen (although some things were lifted from Ars Magica, which he co-wrote). It was written by Stewart Weick, who’s major inspiration for the game came from Pirsig’s Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance - which is something of a far cry from the sources that influenced Vampire et al.
It’s also because, practically, the background of the Mage game just didn’t sit well with the rest of the WoD. How could it be that the reality of the world was mostly controlled by the Technocracy, with their rational world view, while still seemingly being overran with vampires and various other supernatural denizens, who is some cases were also supposedly controlling the world behind the scenes.
So, I think it could be a good move to find a way of at least sidelining the connections between the games, if not completely divorcing them. Not sure how that would work out as a pitch to White Wolf though.
For me, the main thing I would like to see preserved, maybe with a few tweaks, is the freeform magic system. Everything else, to me, is on the table as it were.
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Originally posted by Lian View PostAs there's a big "The major factions have fallen and been reborn for ... version 5" theme going for metaplot and Mage already sort of had that with revised. I'm going to suggest the Technocracy Civil War be front and Center. The Technocracy's fingers are slipping and the world is spiraling out of control into Nihilism. You'll have a playable "good" Technocracy Faction, And maybe the Traditions with an Unplayable "Bad" Technocracy faction perhaps Explicitly Fallen to the Nephandi
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Originally posted by Vysha View Post
Truth. Like, I want to add to the discussion, but I'm afraid that a statement like "hope they go a different route than V5 did, cuz it wouldn't be appropriate to Mage" is so scandalous, it'll blacklist me from a something. And forget saying "but V5 did get some things right, and I hope M5 follows suite", because down that road leads madness.
Can I just pick french toast? Waffles were great is the last edition but got totally neutered in P5 with the crappy Blueberry mechanics, and pancakes were bland and uninteresting in past editions and won't be revisited until IHOPbN comes out (at which point they will no doubt be awesome).
Last edited by PMárk; 12-21-2019, 09:46 AM.
If nothing worked, then let's think!
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Originally posted by Marko Markoko View PostI myself would llike to see a complete divorce from vampire and the oWoD. I want to see a Mage game that stands on its own. No mixing of character types. No more worrying about compatability or balance between types of supernaturals. No more concern with the history and lore of vampires or werewolves.
Taking Mage to a different publisher would be an essential step in doing that. A game company that can focus on supernatural occult wonder.Last edited by PMárk; 12-21-2019, 11:53 AM.
If nothing worked, then let's think!
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Originally posted by Lian View PostUnplayable "Bad" Technocracy faction perhaps Explicitly Fallen to the Nephandi
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Originally posted by CaptOtter View PostI can see different flavors of a "fallen" technocracy--some fallen to the Nephandi, which could be reflected in public by some mega merger of Pentex and some other companies--which would be a nice topical dovetail with recent IRL business/industry trends; and still others falling to/being co-opted by Threat Null.
If nothing worked, then let's think!
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I only mentioned V5 in so far as V5 exists, and so M5 is a possibility. V5 made changes to the setting and mechanics, so in a hypothetical M5 changes to the setting and mechanics are possible. Writing "hope they go a different route than V5 did, cuz it wouldn't be appropriate to Mage" is fine (but you could be more specific). Five pages of vomiting bile about V5 into a M5 thread is not fine and is not welcome.
Frankly, I started the thread to see how likely people thought it would be for Paradox to farm M5 out to another company, and to ask which company they would prefer.
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Originally posted by PMárk View Post
Honestly, again, based on V5 and the info about W5 so far, I'd bet the roles and conflicts and in general the whole setting would be much more simplified. More akin to how it was in 1e, but with more blatant contemporary political overtones. I also wouldn't bet on Threat Null being a majro thing at all. Likely, the Umbra will be as, or even more restricted, than in Revised.
The Tribes pulled back really doesn't SOUND like 1e werewolf. All the Sect in Vampire got kicked in the Face if the Garou nation has fallen in W5 which looks to be the case I'd imagine there'd be push to kickover the anthills in mage and the big one that's still standing is really the Technocracy. Threat Null gives a solid "1e Technocracy" But I imagine some sort of "Good" playable Technocracy folds out.
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Originally posted by PMárk View PostLikely, the Umbra will be as, or even more restricted, than in Revised.
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Originally posted by CaptOtter View PostDamn, dude, how much more restricted could it be? As it stands, in Revised, you get shredded for stepping sideways—the next step is either not letting mages go there at all, or making it SO punitive/more damaging that it may as well not be there.
Writing up Clanbook: Aabbt
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Originally posted by Vysha View Post
Actually, that's probably how it would go, if the next publisher wants to limit umbral travel. I can see an argument being made about how access to umbral realms shifts the focus too far away from Earthly affairs, though I might not agree with it. So yeah, why wouldn't a publisher with that line of thinking just say "Spirit only lets you bring things across from the other side to Earth"?
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Originally posted by Vysha View Post
Actually, that's probably how it would go, if the next publisher wants to limit umbral travel. I can see an argument being made about how access to umbral realms shifts the focus too far away from Earthly affairs, though I might not agree with it. So yeah, why wouldn't a publisher with that line of thinking just say "Spirit only lets you bring things across from the other side to Earth"?
IF We consider some of the Rumours from Werewolf, I'd imagine the Umbra is RELATIVELY Cut off but there are special areas you can access it. Rather than having a broad Gauntlet rating its something you can enter and exit from your magical/holy site.
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Originally posted by CaptOtter View PostThe Umbra might one of the most distinctive and fantastic parts of the Classic World of Darkness. I don't understand how it is that someone who got into Mage during second edition, and enjoyed it, would think the game would be better by functionally lacking an umbra--i.e., who played mage back in the day and said to themselves, "this game is great--except for like 60% of this game..."
Originally posted by Lian View PostIF We consider some of the Rumours from Werewolf, I'd imagine the Umbra is RELATIVELY Cut off but there are special areas you can access it. Rather than having a broad Gauntlet rating its something you can enter and exit from your magical/holy site.
Writing up Clanbook: Aabbt
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Originally posted by Vysha View Post
Actually, that's probably how it would go, if the next publisher wants to limit umbral travel. I can see an argument being made about how access to umbral realms shifts the focus too far away from Earthly affairs, though I might not agree with it. So yeah, why wouldn't a publisher with that line of thinking just say "Spirit only lets you bring things across from the other side to Earth"?
The basic intent of this could be argued in different ways. There was a feeling that the WoD developers wanted closer interaction between lines - meaning that Mages needed to be more wholly integrated with the setting inhabited by vampires, werewolves, et al. Some felt that the umbral worlds were a bit twee - with characters able to gallivant across them in a way that made it feel like Spirit World Quest, with a new setting each week, rather than anything to do with the WoD.
If they have a separate line for Mage, with only loose connections to Vampire and Werewolf, then there is no reason why the Umbra can’t be an important element of the game. However, I would like some work to be done to ensure that the mystery of the Spirit Worlds is emphasised.
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