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Technocratic strike against Malfeas

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  • Technocratic strike against Malfeas

    Hello folks,

    I had a scenario playing in my mind: What if, by some loosely related chain of events, the Technocracy ended up mustering a great deal of it's manpower (spaceships, cyborgs, Void engineers, etc) and invaded Malfeas, the realm of the Wyrm incarnae? Can you imagine them emerging victorious in any scenario? Might the Wyrm take this declaration of war to it's logical extreme and proceed with blight-attacks near/around Technocratic facilities and cities around Earth? Or perhaps against particular Technocratic officers?

    Finally, how would you storytell something like this?

    Discuss!

  • #2
    There are surely more efficient and affordable means of getting a lot of Union assets liquidated, citizen.

    There's a whole gameline devoted to making the point that attempting to defeat the Wyrm by punching harder was, is, and shall forever be a doomed, absurd endeavor. The danger to the Union isn't just the likely prospect of their complete physical and spiritual annihilation, though. The dukes of Malfeas constantly intrigue against one another, and offer incentives and honeyed words to visitors, proposing alliances and quid-pro-quos to conspire and collaborate against their rivals. An organization of too-clever mortals might imagine they could turn this factionalism to their advantage, that it is possible to settle for some "lesser evil", picking a duke who they think they can control or deal with after the war is won. The Union's accustomed to this sort of practical thinking, of course. But it's Malfeas. There's no lesser evil, just one Evil wearing a million faces. There's probably a game in there - the sage of the corrosive influence of Malfeas's politics and spiritual atmosphere on the "occupying army" would be good television, at least - but I don't know that there's much space for players in it.


    I attack people with giant insects both on and off the court.

    Comment


    • #3
      You cannot wage war against War. And you cannot make sure that your enemy suffers more loss than you when your enemy is Suffering and Loss.


      The Wyrm is not a big Umbrood that you can defeat. It's part of what moves reality itself, and not the "consensual reality", but the deeper reality that cares nothing about the Consensus

      Let me formulate in a more "Mage perspective": can mages kill Entropy? Or take down Dynamism?

      Comment


      • #4
        Well, W20 does suggest that killing a Maeljin Incarnae weakens the Urge they emerged from and, depending on how they're killed, effects the urge's manifestation in reality for a sustained period of time. Could that not be a plausible strategy a Technocrat undertakes?

        Comment


        • #5
          Maeljin Incarnae cannot be killed. Each has a a very specific (and complex) method to be destroyed. Otherwise they will just regenerate and reform, and most of them will just recreate themselves in the body of the man who killed them.

          A Maeljin Incarna serves in its position until either
          it fails in its duties or a more powerful avatar replaces
          it. If someone destroys a Dark Lord, eventually another
          will appear, but the world could be free of her presence
          for a year or even a decade. Unfortunately, many of
          those who kill one of the Maeljin Incarna instantly
          replace the fallen Dark Lord, leaving no more than a
          few minutes passing between one dying and the killer
          taking its place.



          Let's take some example


          Ba'ashkai, the Urge of Violence
          Along with Foebok, Ba’ashkai is one of the most
          primal of the Urge Wyrms. It begins as a drive to use
          excessive violence in some situations, and becomes a
          desire to use it to solve and simplify all problems. Victims
          settle discussions with a fist or a knife and become
          blind to the consequences of these actions. Ba’ashkai
          doesn’t arouse hatred or even anger; it inflames the
          bloody and terrible enjoyment of violence for its own
          sake and the willingness to see violence as the best tool
          to solve any problem.
          Chieftain of Rage, General of the Armies of the
          Wyrm and Patron of Abuse, Hellbringer
          An incarnation of brutality, this Maeljin Incarna
          serves both Ba’ashkai and Beast-of-War. Hellbringer is
          the general of the armies of the Wyrm and the patron
          of abuse. Anyone struck by a bolt from his crossbow attacks
          whoever is nearest. He has never been defeated in
          battle, and were one to try, they would surely replace him
          .
          Hellbringer has another face, that of Malik Harjaq, the
          Master of Mayhem — a Viking berserker with a dozen
          arms each wielding a different weapon. Minions of the
          Wyrm know that both of Hellbringer’s guises wield the
          full power of an Incarna, but a Maeljin Incarna cannot
          simply divide in two.
          Destruction: Destroying either of these warriors
          must occur away from battle. Hellbringer must find
          himself in a situation where he is entirely alone and he
          is enticed to stab himself with one of his own crossbow
          bolts. When he does, he attempts to destroy himself. If
          someone has supplied him with a sufficiently powerful
          weapon, he can successfully kill himself. However, no
          one can wield the bolt as a weapon or set it in a trap
          where it is hurled, shot, or thrown at Hellbringer — he
          must inflict the wound voluntarily.


          Malik Harjaq periodically sates himself with violent
          revelry after a battle, and at this point, he is vulnerable.
          Even here, he can only die if someone can make certain
          that he consumes several drops of a poison distilled from
          the liquid flowing from one of the Wyld Founts in Malfeas.
          The recipe for this poison is a well-guarded secret,
          and acquiring it is no easy task.
          So if Ba'ashkai face you in the Hellbringer form, no matter what, you can't defeat him in battle. He could destroy the entire Technocracy invasion force alone.


          Gree, the Urge of Despair, can only be destroyed by garou.

          Gree, the Urge of Despair
          Gree devours its victims’ will, destroying their desire
          to act or to attempt to take control of their lives in even
          the smallest ways. It floods its victims with an overwhelming
          sense of sorrow and loss. The most common
          result of extended possession is suicide, through either
          deliberate action or passive neglect. After its Fall, Bat
          became a Totem of despair, although some Garou are
          now attempting to redeem it.
          The Nameless Angel of Despair
          The patron of suicides, the Nameless Angel can
          manifest in many places at one time and feeds on sadness.
          It cannot speak, communicating only in waves of
          negative emotions, and has the innate ability to appear
          whenever its presence would help push someone over
          the edge. It takes no part in Maeljin politics, but all of
          the Wyrm’s servants fear its grey robes and the cold, dark
          cloud of despair that travels with it.

          Destruction: The Nameless Angel is the source
          of the epic grief of Harano, and this feeling is also its
          weakness. To destroy the Nameless Angel, the Garou
          once created a legendary ritual where the participants
          fill themselves with hope and Rage. The rite can only
          work at a Concolation, a grand moot of Garou from
          far and wide. Garou from three different Septs must
          simultaneously work part of the ritual at their caerns.
          At the end of these rituals, all the participants howl
          their Rage at the Wyrm in one vast and terrible instant.
          This surge of emotion destroys the Nameless Angel of
          Despair. Unfortunately, the details of the Rite are lost
          to time — and once the initial Concolation occurs, the
          Nameless Angel of Despair knows what is happening.
          It will attempt to stop the completion of the final Rites
          .
          Last edited by Undead rabbit; 12-21-2019, 09:15 AM.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by KingJohn View Post
            Well, W20 does suggest that killing a Maeljin Incarnae weakens the Urge they emerged from and, depending on how they're killed, effects the urge's manifestation in reality for a sustained period of time. Could that not be a plausible strategy a Technocrat undertakes?
            First, they have to find Malfeas. Paradigmatic restrictions might not allow the TU to really "see" where it is in Werewolf's Deep Umbra, which is not the same place as the Deep Umbra as Mage has typically known it across editions. Secondly, at least part of it - most obviously, the Spiral Labyrinth - counts as a Caul to mages. If their instruments can even "feel out" the spiritual landscape of Malfeas, they would probably have a reaction similar to the crew of the Event Horizon witnessing the blood orgy video, not an urge to cowboy up and prep for an invasion.

            "We're leaving."

            Comment


            • #7
              Basically it's not some big battle. That would be dumb.

              Could the Technocracy beat Malfeas? Yes. Do they want to or even know that it exists? Nope. It's in the Umbra. 90% of the Technocracy believes that the Umbra doesn't matter as long as you wall it off. Which they have done.

              Comment


              • #8
                Technocracy aren't some uber magical-techno rambos. They would never takeover or ever defeat Malfeas at all. Almost all of their faction 'cept for the Void Engineers are not versed in the Spirit Sphere to even travel to it. Even if they did, they would be torn to shreds by the inhabitants of that place. Even if they did with the usual asspulls they do, the destruction would give more power to Malfeas, resulting in a war the Technocracy can't win. They would also have to focus all their attention on that matter, which would mean the Traditions or other Crafts with a grudge against the Technocracy can mount incursions in their Earth holdings.

                EDIT: Not to mention the Incarnae (which need Rites or very elaborate ways to "destroy" them) will floor any Technocracy Umbric colonization attempt of Malfeas. Mages despite their Awakened state to manipulate the Tellurian are still mortal. They'd need to have to pack up heavy gadgets and armor, which isn't even guaranteed to help them. Not only that they are at a double disadvantage since their Paradigms mean they are dissuaded from doing super Vulgar Effects.
                Last edited by Shakanaka; 12-23-2019, 01:26 AM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I'll note, however, that at one point it was written up that the Wu Lung knocked Autochthonia out of its proper orbit during a war with the Five Metal Dragons/Artificers, cutting off the latter's contact with it for centuries. It's possible that the Technocracy could manage something similar with Malfeas.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Matt the Bruins fan View Post
                    I'll note, however, that at one point it was written up that the Wu Lung knocked Autochthonia out of its proper orbit during a war with the Five Metal Dragons/Artificers, cutting off the latter's contact with it for centuries. It's possible that the Technocracy could manage something similar with Malfeas.
                    You might be able to prevent the BSDs from getting back to the Spiral Labyrinth, but the wound in the cosmos isn't going away nearly so easily, and it probably wouldn't be pleasant to even start the ritual to try. Gaining the direct attention of the Maeljin and possibly also the Triatic Wyrms seems like it result in the situation getting very bad, very quickly.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by KingJhon
                      I had a scenario playing in my mind: What if, by some loosely related chain of events, the Technocracy ended up mustering a great deal of it's manpower (spaceships, cyborgs, Void engineers, etc) and invaded Malfeas, the realm of the Wyrm incarnae?
                      The White Howlers already "been there, done that".

                      It doesn't end well.

                      Can you imagine them emerging victorious in any scenario?
                      Yes, they study the enemy and correctly assess that trying to blow up "destruction" it's a bit dumb.

                      Then they retreat, kill the Nephandi that most likely suggested the attack, keep a close watch on anyone involved, and perhaps try to curb the Wyrm's influence in more sensible ways from now on

                      Might the Wyrm take this declaration of war to it's logical extreme and proceed with blight-attacks near/around Technocratic facilities and cities around Earth? Or perhaps against particular Technocratic officers?
                      I think the Wyrm largely approves all violent war declarations, and having to deal with blights and banes afterwards it's as natural as getting wet after jumping to water.

                      For instance, an excess of Paradox caused while battling the Wyrm could end on some Paradox spirits becoming corrupted, creating Paradox-Banes. And no one want's that, but it wouldn't be a "retaliation" per se. If you jump into the water you get wet, if you jump into the Wyrm you get Banes.

                      More, mmm..."singular" spirits that had their stuff nuked as consequence of an attack could retaliate on a more conventional fashion, sure. Sending minions and curses like any normal person-thing would.

                      Finally, how would you storytell something like this?
                      Like the White Howlers in the time of their inevitable descension, it's the story of a great mistake caused by great hubris combined with self-righteousness. I think there could be a Mage story here somewhere.

                      But the Technocracy "as it is" it's not a very good medium. As Enginseer-42 stated, the Technocracy doesn't care much about the Wyrm, Umbral hellholes, and such...nor wants to.

                      One may need to invent either alternate Technocracy or a whole new faction of mages to make this a sensible story. And even then it's important to find a place for the players in the whole drama that doesn't make them mere spectators of the ruined endeavor
                      Last edited by Aleph; 12-23-2019, 11:14 AM.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Aleph View Post

                        The White Howlers already "been there, done that".

                        It doesn't end well.



                        Yes, they study the enemy and correctly assess that trying to blow up "destruction" it's a bit dumb.

                        Then they retreat, kill the Nephandi that most likely suggested the attack, keep a close watch on anyone involved, and perhaps try to curb the Wyrm's influence in more sensible ways from now on



                        I think the Wyrm largely approves all violent war declarations, and having to deal with blights and banes afterwards it's as natural as getting wet after jumping to water.

                        For instance, an excess of Paradox caused while battling the Wyrm could end on some Paradox spirits becoming corrupted, creating Paradox-Banes. And no one want's that, but it wouldn't be a "retaliation" per se. If you jump into the water you get wet, if you jump into the Wyrm you get Banes.

                        More, mmm..."singular" spirits that had their stuff nuked as consequence of an attack could retaliate on a more conventional fashion, sure. Sending minions and curses like any normal person-thing would.



                        Like the White Howlers in the time of their inevitable descension, it's the story of a great mistake caused by great hubris combined with self-righteousness. I think there could be a Mage story here somewhere.

                        But the Technocracy "as it is" it's not a very good medium. As Enginseer-42 stated, the Technocracy doesn't care much about the Wyrm, Umbral hellholes, and such...nor wants to.

                        One may need to invent either alternate Technocracy or a whole new faction of mages to make this a sensible story. And even then it's important to find a place for the players in the whole drama that doesn't make them mere spectators of the ruined endeavor

                        Perhaps the Technocracy would clash with Pentex? I can only imagine that the Union wouldn't be too happy with a bunch of corruption-loving reality deviants tampering with their Consensus.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by KingJohn View Post


                          Perhaps the Technocracy would clash with Pentex? I can only imagine that the Union wouldn't be too happy with a bunch of corruption-loving reality deviants tampering with their Consensus.

                          Then they get to feel a tiny bit how the Garou and Fera do, because Pentex isn't actually the ultimate problem. The entire system of wealth that the TU helped to set up is the problem, as the charter purpose of corporations - make money over all other concerns - is extremely ripe for corruption by the Wyrm. The Technocrats will have to face up to the fact that the ones they see in the mirror fucked up horribly and helped to doom the world. Most WoD protagonists hoping for the contrary aren't really so great at that level of self-criticism, so they'll probably just keep trying to make their original plans work.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Pentex versus the Syndicate could potentially be a comedy of dueling hostile takeovers.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              The Syndicate cannot move against Pentex. It's their little dirty secret. A Full frontal economic warfare would tip the NWO.
                              Pentex was born from a methodology of the Syndicate, the SPD.

                              If the NWO find out the connection between Pentex and Syndicate then the NWO would probably purge the Syndicate.
                              There is a whole section in Syndicate Revised that explains how bad is the situation with Pentex.

                              From Syndicate Revised

                              Three months into the Reorganization, we tried to contact the executives in Special Projects. No calls were returned, no emails
                              replied to. We went down the roster, from VP Sinclair on down, and no one was home.

                              Naturally, we went to do some house calls. Disbursements agents went to various Pentex holdings to find out what was going on. Two agents went into their Atlanta office. None came out. Two more went into their Paris office, same story. All four agents’ life signs went flat a few minutes into the visit. No other
                              evidence — audio and video feeds cut out upon entering the building
                              .

                              Teams of Enforcers came in to handle the job, simultaneously hitting D.C., Munich, Seattle, and Shanghai. The story’s almost the same as the first: their life signs lasted a little longer, and to make a point, one Enforcer’s head was mailed to the VPO of Finance’s office.
                              Or, it’d be more accurate to say that the box was sitting on her desk when she walked in after a five-martini lunch — no note, no sign of who left it there.


                              Here’s the funny thing: Pentex kept sending its quarterly dividends to the Syndicate. So, whatever process was in place to make sure the Syndicate’s cash flow wasn’t interrupted still worked, even if there wasn’t anyone around to deal with it. It still does today, a decade later. From that perspective, Pentex
                              operates exactly as it did before the Anomaly, at least as far as the world’s concerned.

                              However, it hasn’t delivered any hypertech since it went silent. There’s nothing but questions: what the hell happened to Special Projects Division
                              and what the fuck killed those highly trained Enlightened badasses?

                              The Board decided that the price for the answers was too high, especially since Pentex was still paying into the machine. The Bottom
                              Line wasn’t being fucked with enough to risk a bigger operation. Certainly, we could mount one, but the risk isn’t about lives lost;
                              it’s about the other Conventions finding out about SPD. That would tip the balance of power completely to NWO, and if that happens,
                              the entire Union is lost.


                              Not many know about this… situation; certainly no one outside of the Syndicate. The VPO of Finance has a team of Enforcers, known as Special Information Security Division (SISD), whose sole job it is to handle any potential threats to that information.
                              Last edited by Undead rabbit; 12-25-2019, 11:45 AM.

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