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  • Calling Technocracy Fans.

    Are you excited for Technocracy Reloaded? What you want to see?

  • #2
    Having backed M20 and being disappointed with it's contents I have no plan to back the technocracy book.


    You've been playing around the magic that is black
    But all the powerful magical mysteries never gave a single thing back

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    • #3
      While I have some issues with M20, I generally approve of what it's done. I'm looking forward to Technocracy Reloaded as well.


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      • #4
        Overall, I've enjoyed roughly 80% of all the content that constitutes M20 (i.e., core book, HDYDT, Book of Secrets, Gods & Monsters, Book of the Fallen.) The parts I haven't liked mostly have to do with system/mechanics changes that I think "nerfed" Mages in favor trying to make them scale in power somewhat with other supernaturals (Mages are rare, naturally squishy, and sphere magic is dangerous and expensive--let them trounce vampires a little); or to attempt to 'bake in' to the system certain constraints on magic intended to make the game jibe with the de rigueur social politics of today, by making it more difficult or impossible for players engage in "problematic" conduct. Mind you, these social politics are my social politics, but the implementation feels patronizing, and out of step with the larger tonal aspects of the WoD.

        Having said that (since other commenters mentioned either liking or not liking M20 thus far) -- I'm really looking forward to any and all additional 20th Anniversary content for any of the lines, but mostly M20, and what this Technocracy book to delve into Threat Null, overhaul the treatment of social media, fake news, etc., as it integrates into the system and Technocratic paradigm; I want to know more about how the Technocracy is entrenched into human governments and the intelligence community; I want to know what's going on with John Courage. And (if I'm being REALLY honest), I want stat blocks. I want HIT Marks and combat cyborgs of all stripes; war clones; cybertooth tigers; I want mech suits, and Rob Liefeld-style huge, honkin' energy weapons; I want an expansion of the Build-A-Ship system in Void Engineers (Rev.); I want systems for space combat.

        I'm probably asking for too much--but my enjoyment of the books will basically be proportional to the degree to which one or more of the foregoing appear in its pages.


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        • #5
          I have doubts that we'll be seeing any more of Threat Null: my suspicion is that Technocracy Reloaded will be following the metaplot ideas that Brucato had with his New Millennium notion: the Avatar Storm happened, but it's long since died down (which is the main reason I don't expect to see Threat Null); the Traditions have set up a new Council headquartered in New Zealand, and many of them have renamed themselves; and most importantly where the Technocracy is concerned, a (probably Technephandi-inspired) purge of “insufficiently loyal” Technocrats is or has recently taken place in the guise of a reorganization of the Union (resulting in a new take on the Conventions), leading to the Knights of Avalon formally jumping ship as the new Navalon Craft.


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          • #6
            Originally posted by CaptOtter View Post
            I want stat blocks. I want HIT Marks and combat cyborgs of all stripes; war clones; cybertooth tigers; I want mech suits, and Rob Liefeld-style huge, honkin' energy weapons; I want an expansion of the Build-A-Ship system in Void Engineers (Rev.); I want systems for space combat.
            Yes! I want to have the rules to build my own versions of all of that, or to run a game with only HIT Marks, if that's something I decide to do. And I want stats for all the models of them. And space combat.


            Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Dataweaver View Post
              I have doubts that we'll be seeing any more of Threat Null: my suspicion is that Technocracy Reloaded will be following the metaplot ideas that Brucato had with his New Millennium notion: the Avatar Storm happened, but it's long since died down (which is the main reason I don't expect to see Threat Null); the Traditions have set up a new Council headquartered in New Zealand, and many of them have renamed themselves; and most importantly where the Technocracy is concerned, a (probably Technephandi-inspired) purge of “insufficiently loyal” Technocrats is or has recently taken place in the guise of a reorganization of the Union (resulting in a new take on the Conventions), leading to the Knights of Avalon formally jumping ship as the new Navalon Craft.
              This would be cool, though hardly metaplot agnostic. I mean, that would be a major set of developments to the metaplot. If they continue with the "toolbox" approach, I would expect them discuss Threat Null is some way or other. Having said that, I really like the idea of the Knights of Avalon/Navalon thing. Where is that stuff? Like, where can I read about Brucato's vision?


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              • #8
                I'd like to see the book dug deep into the philosophy behind the Technocracy.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Nitromidas View Post

                  Yes! I want to have the rules to build my own versions of all of that, or to run a game with only HIT Marks, if that's something I decide to do. And I want stats for all the models of them. And space combat.

                  More of this, please. HIT Marks, Space combat, ships, exploration, Men in Black, etc.


                  The Final Frontier

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by CaptOtter View Post

                    This would be cool, though hardly metaplot agnostic. I mean, that would be a major set of developments to the metaplot. If they continue with the "toolbox" approach, I would expect them discuss Threat Null is some way or other. Having said that, I really like the idea of the Knights of Avalon/Navalon thing. Where is that stuff? Like, where can I read about Brucato's vision?
                    It's all in M20, if you know where to look. The New Horizon Council is described on pages 145–147; Brucato revealed in various posts (mostly on the M20 Facebook page) that his head-canon tends to go along the lines of the “compromise position” for the Dimensional Anomaly and a “Kinder, Gentler Technocracy” (p.169) — that is, “The Storm has faded, but the scars remain”. Of note, that Future Fate ends on the note that “the Union has become more humane and is looking at long-term reform. If the Nephandi are in charge, however, that might not be a good thing at all…”.

                    Under “Technocratic Dissidents”, the Harbingers of Avalon are described as being “a half-step away from leaving the Technocracy and reforming under a new name: Navalon.”

                    In A Technocratic Upgrade? (p.185), “It's a good bet that the pending re-org comes courtesy of the Nephandic Inner Circle. What better way could there be, after all, to rattle loose the stubborn idealists than to reorganize the entire organization and find out who and where those malcontents might be? such shake-ups always have casualties, and if a bit of red ink winds up spilling over groups like Project Invictus, the Friends of Courage, and the Harbingers of Avalon, well, that's just the cost of doing business.”

                    And one of the Potential Recruits section of the Disparates (pp.199–200) is “Navalon, a breakaway group of idealistic Technocrats who revere the example of King Arthur and despise the corruption of their previous Union.”

                    As for this not being “toolboxy”, times have changed over the last five years; and I suspect that Technocracy Reloaded is going to take a less metaplot-agnostic approach than we've seen so far — though I suspect that lip service will still be paid to “if you don't want to do it this way, you don't have to”, so perhaps Threat Null won't be ignored entirely. But I'll be surprised if they get more than a brief mention here and there.


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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Nicolas Milioni View Post
                      I'd like to see the book dug deep into the philosophy behind the Technocracy.
                      Absolutely.


                      Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Nicolas Milioni View Post
                        I'd like to see the book dug deep into the philosophy behind the Technocracy.
                        I have no doubt we'll see this — in the form of the Technocratic Focus, and its section on Paradigms and Practices. Technology Holds All the Answers will be ubiquitous; it is, after all, the heart and soul of the Technocracy's philosophy. But I expect to see variations on other Paradigms and some new ones that have a Technocratic spin to them.

                        I'm hoping (but not expecting) that they address what I consider to be the single biggest flaw in the way the Technocracy has been handled in the past: namely, that they've been presented as being fundamentally and objectively wrong, with the lower ranks being ignorant of the True Nature of Reality and the higher ranks lying about it. I've gone into depth about how I think it ought to be addressed elsewhere, so I won't belabor the point here; but I do want it addressed better than it has been in the past.


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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by CaptOtter View Post
                          And (if I'm being REALLY honest), I want stat blocks. I want HIT Marks and combat cyborgs of all stripes; war clones; cybertooth tigers; I want mech suits, and Rob Liefeld-style huge, honkin' energy weapons; I want an expansion of the Build-A-Ship system in Void Engineers (Rev.); I want systems for space combat.
                          I'm hoping we'll get clearer treatments of the various Technocratic Practices; in particular, the Syndicate's Art of Desire and Hyper-economics is one area that lots of people tend not to get.

                          I'm expecting to see Wonders and Constructs from Iteration X and the Progenitors (or whatever they're going to be called after the re-org); I'm hoping to see some examination on the distinction between “Procedure and Instrument” on the one hand and “Gadget, Invention, or Device” on the other. As well, the Iteration X Constructs should cover the hypertech potential of AI, giving us robotics as well as cyborgs. The Revised Progenitors book already covers most of what I'd like to see for the bio-tech Wonders and Constructs.

                          I'd like to see more about Extraordinary Citizens, M20-style. I'd like, but really don't expect, to see advanced education techniques from the NWO or its successor that allow Enlightened Scientists and Extraordinary Citizens alike to learn and perform individual Procedures, blurring but not erasing the distinction between them. And I'd really like an examination of the Technocracy's system for shifting Reality Zones and getting their innovations incorporated into the Consensus.

                          And yes, something on hypertech vehicles (including, but not limited to, Void Ships and Walkers) employed by the Void Engineers would be great, including expansions on vehicular combat and chases. Along with rules for alien environments and aliens — though that might be a bridge too far.


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                          • #14
                            Dataweaver I'm 1000% down with everything you said, and frankly, didn't realize how much I wanted certain things until I read them in your comment--and despite my desire for basically kewl stuff!, I overwhelmingly would also like this addressed:

                            Originally posted by Dataweaver View Post
                            the distinction between “Procedure and Instrument” on the one hand and “Gadget, Invention, or Device” on the other.
                            When we've played Techocrats at my table, we sort of avoided the issue of discussing what the Technocrats think is happening when they use a technological device to perform magic--I mean, when they pull out a gun and "Hot Shot", do they think there's something built into the gun that permits them to do that? Does the person who built the gun (assuming it's a special, albeit non-magical/non-enlightened Technocrat gun like an X5 or something) think they built some part of it to perform the effect? It always seems like technomancers (from Sons of Ether to Technocrats) are always just painting a cardboard washing machine box with gunmetal gray spray paint, then drawing on some knobs, and making some random wires stick out of it, and they're like voila! A transmogrifier! It just seems hard to wrap my head around how the hell they think what they're doing is different from the traditions, other than from an aesthetics/milieu/trappings standpoint.


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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by CaptOtter View Post
                              When we've played Techocrats at my table, we sort of avoided the issue of discussing what the Technocrats think is happening when they use a technological device to perform magic--I mean, when they pull out a gun and "Hot Shot", do they think there's something built into the gun that permits them to do that? Does the person who built the gun (assuming it's a special, albeit non-magical/non-enlightened Technocrat gun like an X5 or something) think they built some part of it to perform the effect? It always seems like technomancers (from Sons of Ether to Technocrats) are always just painting a cardboard washing machine box with gunmetal gray spray paint, then drawing on some knobs, and making some random wires stick out of it, and they're like voila! A transmogrifier! It just seems hard to wrap my head around how the hell they think what they're doing is different from the traditions, other than from an aesthetics/milieu/trappings standpoint.
                              It's been explained before.... But by and large the difference is a technomancer has a theory behind their inventions. This theory can be utterly ridiculous, for example you could claim that when painted blue, a sheet of steel emits bluons. These Bluons are a form of radiation, that when they strike molecules at the right frequency can change elements into other elements. However they can be contained and controlled by sheets of steel painted red.

                              Patently ridiculous. But you do have a theory. Now for the Etherites they revel in just how out there their theories can be and still be 'true.'

                              Technocrats approach on the other hand is different. They want to 'define all.' their grand quest is to come up with one universal framework that explains everything so by and large their hypertech isn't so much subverting reality as it is intended to take advantage of rules that weren't out of beta yet.

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