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Avatar and Ascension Theories

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  • Avatar and Ascension Theories

    So sometimes I think of the weirdo out there Avatar ideas I could explore. Like what if Ascending is a method of turning the Soul into a new Avatar, and over the eons, more mages became possible because more beings ascended, perhaps this cycle started before humanity as well. These ideas are going to go with ideas that Avatars are alien to the soul.

    And what about the idea that Avatars are an apparatus for Extra Dimensional Beings. Like through the Avatar these beings are able to project the supernal higher truths into the world. This would fit with a number of different methods of interpreting the world like Simulation Theory or Mage the Awakenings Supernal Realms. So Awakening Mages sometimes use reflexive magic at first and then have to learn paradigm and foci to channel it successfully. And becoming Nephandi corrupts the apparatus rather then the being on the other end.

    I also think back to the idea that Demon the Fallen Demons see angel shards in mages, but that might actually be shards of the Creator who shattered, and Angels were just emanations of the Creator anyways.

    I also like an Idea I want to try, that maybe Oracles gain access to the Multiverse.

    One idea I have of Post Time of Judgement is After Mages Ascend/Go Away or maybe they discover they are the last Mages to ever awaken due to a metaphysical Change, and so they have to fabricate Watchtowers in the Deep Universe (Finding out that Deep Space/Umbra/Dreaming are a Supernal Layer of Existence) and they imprint the capacity to use magic on Mortals who awaken to them and scribe their name. The Exarchs and Oracles are beings who ascended to this layer of Reality but they are all essentially tossed together, so some view some activities as from an Oracle while others view it as from an Exarch but they are the same being.

    Thoughts?

  • #2
    My personal "canon" is that Ascension is basically a cosmological reproduction process, kind of like "divine mitosis." The soul of the Mage reaches a point where it is capable of generating a new Universe/Tellurian, and it flits off into the Void to do so.

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    • #3
      I think that a multiplicity of theories regarding Avatars and Ascension (and their manifestations) is always good for Mage and serves to create a healthy diversity of paradigms and perspectives which is good.

      My personal perspective on the meta-theory does generally relate to The One and Grand Wheel theories but with an emphasis placed upon the ineffability of cosmological archetypes and what things were like prior to human enlightenment.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Eldagusto View Post
        These ideas are going to go with ideas that Avatars are alien to the soul.
        Imagining this to be so.

        Originally posted by Eldagusto View Post
        And what about the idea that Avatars are an apparatus for Extra Dimensional Beings. Like through the Avatar these beings are able to project the supernal higher truths into the world. This would fit with a number of different methods of interpreting the world like Simulation Theory or Mage the Awakenings Supernal Realms.
        The easiest way to represent everything you have just said is to imagine a Virtual Adept dressed head to toe in VR peripherals. He sees himself in a realm, created by an extradimensional being who represents themselves as the Adept's Avatar. Projected out from the Avatar is radiant light that reveals hidden properties of objects and the landscape of the realm.

        Originally posted by Eldagusto View Post
        And becoming Nephandi corrupts the apparatus rather then the being on the other end.
        This makes the Nerphandi a bit more trivial than the way I think of them. Just replace the apparatus. But you were about to say something about...

        Originally posted by Eldagusto View Post
        I also think back to the idea that Demon the Fallen Demons see angel shards in mages, but that might actually be shards of the Creator who shattered, and Angels were just emanations of the Creator anyways.
        Demon The Fallen is the chapter in WoD/CoD history where the writers packed a truck with all the wonderful lore they spent all that time creating for other game-lines and drove it all off the side of a bridge. Where we were supposed to imagine Demons as something incredibly dangerous, unknowable and ever looming, Demon The Fallen turns them into playable characters. "Hi, I'm Jim. I'm a garbage man. Did you know, I'm also a Demon? Demons are your friends and neighbors. We have the same concerns and aspirations..." - I just can't bring myself to take that any further. On with some better ideas.

        Originally posted by Eldagusto View Post
        I also like an Idea I want to try, that maybe Oracles gain access to the Multiverse.

        One idea I have of Post Time of Judgement is After Mages Ascend/Go Away or maybe they discover they are the last Mages to ever awaken due to a metaphysical Change, and so they have to fabricate Watchtowers in the Deep Universe (Finding out that Deep Space/Umbra/Dreaming are a Supernal Layer of Existence) and they imprint the capacity to use magic on Mortals who awaken to them and scribe their name. The Exarchs and Oracles are beings who ascended to this layer of Reality but they are all essentially tossed together, so some view some activities as from an Oracle while others view it as from an Exarch but they are the same being.

        Thoughts?
        How do you represent this view of the universe to your players? Visually Narratively, a trip to the pillar? In this universe, what do player characters do that is different from the canon setting? What are the players' goals? Who stands in their way? What environmental challenges do they face in their travels? Does it happen on Earth or the Deep Universe?
        Last edited by HorizonParty2021; 11-06-2020, 03:32 AM.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by HorizonParty2021 View Post

          Imagining this to be so.



          The easiest way to represent everything you have just said is to imagine a Virtual Adept dressed head to toe in VR peripherals. He sees himself in a realm, created by an extradimensional being who represents themselves as the Adept's Avatar. Projected out from the Avatar is radiant light that reveals hidden properties of objects and the landscape of the realm.



          This makes the Nerphandi a bit more trivial than the way I think of them. Just replace the apparatus. But you were about to say something about...



          Demon The Fallen is the chapter in WoD/CoD history where the writers packed a truck with all the wonderful lore they spent all that time creating for other game-lines and drove it all off the side of a bridge. Where we were supposed to imagine Demons as something incredibly dangerous, unknowable and ever looming, Demon The Fallen turns them into playable characters. "Hi, I'm Jim. I'm a garbage man. Did you know, I'm also a Demon? Demons are your friends and neighbors. We have the same concerns and aspirations..." - I just can't bring myself to take that any further. On with some better ideas.



          How do you represent this view of the universe to your players? Visually Narratively, a trip to the pillar? In this universe, what do player characters do that is different from the canon setting? What are the players' goals? Who stands in their way? What environmental challenges do they face in their travels? Does it happen on Earth or the Deep Universe?
          You are thinking of Apparatus in a material or literal sense. I mean it in a more conceptual or fundamental sense. Like you could consider your capacity to understand language as an apparatus, I mean something like this but on a more transcendent level, I don't mean a physical device. You don't replace such an apparatus as its apart of your soul.

          Demon the Fallen was made to make beings of a transcendent nature interactable with mundane life and tied to pathos. Like it or not, that was the goal, though they are lesser beings by the time of the game's start.

          The last bit is a metaphysical end game of one chronicle, succeeding ties into starting a new chronicle as a different type of mage. The Supernal would be something a bit harder to physically interact with then a spaceship trip to Venus. Its mostly tied to their Awakening were they would have their souls either leave their body to project into the Supernal to carve their name onto a Watchtower, or their senses are projected there while they are in the Material World and they physically take part in a mystery play where they see themselves in a Watchtower carving their name but they are actually in the woods or in an abandoned house carving onto wood. But the Deep Umbra would be changed by the time of the 2nd Chronicle after Ascension and it would be trickier to physically enter, while you would interact with other parts of the Universe.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Eldagusto View Post
            You are thinking of Apparatus in a material or literal sense. I mean it in a more conceptual or fundamental sense. Like you could consider your capacity to understand language as an apparatus, I mean something like this but on a more transcendent level, I don't mean a physical device. You don't replace such an apparatus as its apart of your soul.
            Okay. So, It's like the Nephandi tapped the phone on a conversation between you and your Avatar?

            Originally posted by Eldagusto View Post
            Demon the Fallen was made to make beings of a transcendent nature interactable with mundane life and tied to pathos. Like it or not, that was the goal, though they are lesser beings by the time of the game's start.
            It also seems heavily tied to Christian Mythology, which I tend to de-emphasize, even when making Chorus NPCs. I'm sure some value can be taken from DtF. Nephandi Infernalists are now understood to be using Demons as much as being used by them. So, they don't have to be super powerful. Lesser Demons fit with BotF.

            Originally posted by Eldagusto View Post
            The last bit is a metaphysical end game of one chronicle, succeeding ties into starting a new chronicle as a different type of mage. The Supernal would be something a bit harder to physically interact with then a spaceship trip to Venus. Its mostly tied to their Awakening were they would have their souls either leave their body to project into the Supernal to carve their name onto a Watchtower, or their senses are projected there while they are in the Material World and they physically take part in a mystery play where they see themselves in a Watchtower carving their name but they are actually in the woods or in an abandoned house carving onto wood. But the Deep Umbra would be changed by the time of the 2nd Chronicle after Ascension and it would be trickier to physically enter, while you would interact with other parts of the Universe.
            Creating a good setting for Mage and keeping players tied to it really is a work of art on the part of the storyteller. To blend Awakening and Ascension takes thoughtful consideration.

            I am wrapping up some local intrigue in my current chronicle as I prepare some kind of underground adventure.

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