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Warding Stock Exchanges, prognostication, counter-strategies

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  • #16
    Originally posted by HorizonParty2021 View Post


    Because, all of the billionaires would be Mages. There have to be sleeper-billionaires experiencing the benefits of playing by the rules to fuel the Syndicate's market-consensus. A stock market crash - if you are interested in preventing one - occurs when all the smaller investors (sleepers) pull out. They might not know that it's magick that allows Mage-billionaires to stay rich, but the sleepers are sure they are missing some sort of edge that is needed to win. If sleepers can't see a way of winning, they won't play.
    Except the Syndicate only projects the illusion of a free market while controlling all of the major corporations and the funding behind most governments. The 2008 Housing Crisis was literally a Syndicate paradox backlash!

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    • #17
      Originally posted by JagneStormskull View Post

      Except the Syndicate only projects the illusion of a free market while controlling all of the major corporations and the funding behind most governments. The 2008 Housing Crisis was literally a Syndicate paradox backlash!
      Certainly, we can agree that if sleepers are not allowed to participate freely, be involved with decisions and benefit from the system, it will collapse. For a thing to be part of the consensus, it must not be an illusion of the thing that sleepers believe in. They have to be able to see it for what it is. Tools invented by Iteration X can be purchased at a hardware store, held, examined and used repeatedly to positive effect. A TV ad for a drill shows you the drill and when you buy it, the thing works.

      If sleepers see an ad for a stock trading app and nobody who buys it makes any money, despite having spent reasonable time studying the market or a specific stock's curve, the Syndicate's paradigm faces rejection from the consensus. If all the winners are mages with Time, Entropy or whatever, there are no sleepers believing in the system. Their belief is required. A smart Syndicate would protect sleepers from unfair competition by mages who gobble up all the best stocks.

      There is an additional reason to ward stock exchanges. If the Syndicate's power depends on having vast resources, they definitely want to deny Traditions or Nephandi an easy path to riches. If Hermetics, Orphans and diabolical schemers can all just ride the market, the Syndicate is no longer the Syndicate. Their most important piece of infrastructure is a stock exchange and they have Magick they can use on it. Why not protect it?

      Last edited by HorizonParty2021; 01-27-2021, 11:16 AM.

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      • #18
        This topic it's one of the reasons I want to read the Rich people guide that's going to come out someday...

        However, my two cents would be that either these wards have many holes, or countermeasures it is (or both).

        Because "Hermetics, Orphans and diabolical schemers" do, indeed, ride the market. The Syndicate wants to be the sole force that controls the "free market" (ironic), but if they trully had a monopoly over money magick, other money mages wouldn't be able to *exist* . And that would make a poorer setting, I think :P

        Now, I think a solid ward to prevent prognostication would be very hard to make.

        Such a ward would have to cover not just the stock market, but the whole world to some extent. Otherwise mages could scry the stock market *indirectly*. For instance, you could scry if a bussines it's going to be successful, instead of pointing towards the system itself. Not even the Technocracy can blind ALL the future, and because the "free market" covers a lot of activities in all kinds of places, I think this would be quite problematic.

        Also it's very important Syndicate magick *can* do the prognostications rigth because that's one of the things they want to sell to the people: That statistics, market research, etc - the tools inverstors use to predict the outcome - are better than praying a hail mary to win. But because these tools are given to sleepers, mages could incorporate them into their mojo to "hack" into this super big and costly ward.

        However, there could be cheaper countermeasures. A posibility - that would be very "Syndicate" - it's that they deliberately allow these kind of abuses to some extent, but have ways to scry them and control who get's to be megarich.

        Owning stock most likely counts as a sympathetic connection for the Syndicate uses of Data/Correspondence, so you're allready hooked in their net when you do that (and "unhooking" with magick would be pretty much screaming "I'm a mage" to anyone that searches, unless you're very, very, careful & powerful). At the moment a wizard buys stock, they're already accepting to play the game of the Syndicate to a certain extent.

        After that point, it's a game of chiken. If you're a small player that just wants a little fun, they leave you be (they don't have the resources to catch every infraction). But if you try to win big, that will make ripples in the maket, and then the Syndicate will come to your door with one of those proposals you can't refuse. All mages know that, so they have to be very careful of not breaking the system
        Last edited by Aleph; 01-27-2021, 10:16 PM.

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        • #19
          I love that this happened during the livehood of this thread:

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ToO...hannel=TheHill

          I wonder what the Syndicate would say :P

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Aleph View Post
            I love that this happened during the livehood of this thread:

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ToO...hannel=TheHill

            I wonder what the Syndicate would say :P
            ...Hmm...

            You know, I'm not sure. I mean, this sounds like something they might support. After all, the Market has spoken. The People have spoken. And the people decide... they're going to buy Gamestock shares.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Accelerator View Post
              ...Hmm...

              You know, I'm not sure. I mean, this sounds like something they might support. After all, the Market has spoken. The People have spoken. And the people decide... they're going to buy Gamestock shares.
              It's possible.

              Then again, the classic image of the Syndicate it's them supporting megafunds, not throwing them under the bus to them have 'em rescued by the political power. More so, market whales asking (and likely getting?) more regulations to the state doesn't seem like the kind of things they would typically do. Supposedly the Syndicate IT'S Wall Street, and all of these financial moguls are *angry*

              And memeing something into existence it's a very VA thing to do...

              I could see it both ways, trully. The Syndicate goes deeper than the place where mere crowdunds have their money, and perhaps they are seeing the big picture here...
              Heck, it could go both ways for the Syndicate too: They could be allowing the free market take it's course, but conversely having whales ask for more regulations could lead people to accept the regulations (not because they want them, but because ppl are accustomed to richs having their way). Migth be the whole point, as that would allow the powerful (them) more control. After all, what are Regulations if not Wards & Countermeasures (so to speak) :P ?
              Last edited by Aleph; 01-28-2021, 12:48 PM.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Aleph View Post

                It's possible.

                Then again, the classic image of the Syndicate it's them supporting megafunds, not throwing them under the bus to them have 'em rescued by the political power. More so, market whales asking (and likely getting?) more regulations to the state doesn't seem like the kind of things they would typically do. Supposedly the Syndicate IT'S Wall Street, and all of these financial moguls are *angry*

                And memeing something into existence it's a very VA thing to do...

                I could see it both ways, trully. The Syndicate goes deeper than the place where mere crowdunds have their money, and perhaps they are seeing the big picture here...
                Heck, it could go both ways for the Syndicate too: They could be allowing the free market take it's course, but conversely having whales ask for more regulations could lead people to accept the regulations (not because they want them, but because ppl are accustomed to richs having their way). Migth be the whole point, as that would allow the powerful (them) more control. After all, what are Regulations if not Wards & Countermeasures (so to speak) :P ?
                Robin hood app is selling people's shares for them.

                So who's doing this. Syndicate IT division?

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Accelerator View Post
                  Robin hood app is selling people's shares for them.

                  So who's doing this. Syndicate IT division?
                  Well, sure, Syndicate has an IT division: It's called Iteration X :P

                  Or perhaps VA are doing this. Robin hood being a classic anty-system figure (rob the rich, give tot he poor), in spite of the fact he was actually the lord of the land, and was just stealing back what had been robbed to him in the first place

                  Now, now. Robin Hood it's a polemical figure in the Syndicate. The actual robin existed in WoD, and was a Craftmason. Syndicate doesn't hate him, and sometimes use him as an example of someone who fougth for private property, but they also murdered his Convetion. They haven't any problem with the "stealing to the rich" because these rich were actual criminals, but they weren't exactly fans of the whole "giving to the poor" part either.

                  [/tinfoil hat]"GHASP" Maybe the Craftmasons survived - their demise was overly exaggerated[/tinfoil hat] :P

                  There's a new thread about this, let's go talk this thing there.
                  Last edited by Aleph; 01-28-2021, 02:28 PM.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Aleph View Post
                    Such a ward would have to cover not just the stock market, but the whole world to some extent. Otherwise mages could scry the stock market *indirectly*. For instance, you could scry if a bussines it's going to be successful, instead of pointing towards the system itself. Not even the Technocracy can blind ALL the future, and because the "free market" covers a lot of activities in all kinds of places, I think this would be quite problematic.

                    Also it's very important Syndicate magick *can* do the prognostications rigth because that's one of the things they want to sell to the people: That statistics, market research, etc - the tools inverstors use to predict the outcome - are better than praying a hail mary to win. But because these tools are given to sleepers, mages could incorporate them into their mojo to "hack" into this super big and costly ward.

                    However, there could be cheaper countermeasures. A posibility - that would be very "Syndicate" - it's that they deliberately allow these kind of abuses to some extent, but have ways to scry them and control who get's to be megarich.

                    Owning stock most likely counts as a sympathetic connection for the Syndicate uses of Data/Correspondence, so you're allready hooked in their net when you do that (and "unhooking" with magick would be pretty much screaming "I'm a mage" to anyone that searches, unless you're very, very, careful & powerful). At the moment a wizard buys stock, they're already accepting to play the game of the Syndicate to a certain extent.

                    After that point, it's a game of chiken. If you're a small player that just wants a little fun, they leave you be (they don't have the resources to catch every infraction). But if you try to win big, that will make ripples in the maket, and then the Syndicate will come to your door with one of those proposals you can't refuse. All mages know that, so they have to be very careful of not breaking the system
                    Good points. Stated another way:

                    If the Syndicate warded the NASDAQ, someone could use Entropy or Time to predict the probabilities of Netflix doing well. If they warded Netflix, someone could use Entropy or Time to predict the probability of a pandemic then cross-reference that with the fact that Netflix does really well when people have to stay indoors. If they warded the probabilities of a pandemic, the Progenitors would probably get pissed at them for making everyone unable to notice that unsanitary conditions in Chinese wet markets combined with the fact that bats have incredible immune systems is a very bad thing.

                    On the other hand, why would the Syndicate want to ward it when they could use it as a net to catch RDs?

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                    • #25
                      Perhaps. On the other hand, the Syndicate is the least anti-RD of all of the Conventions, with the possible exception of the Void Engineers; they're more likely to try to co-opt RDs than to catch them.


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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Dataweaver View Post
                        Perhaps. On the other hand, the Syndicate is the least anti-RD of all of the Conventions, with the possible exception of the Void Engineers; they're more likely to try to co-opt RDs than to catch them.

                        What can the Syndicate use to coopt RDs if RDs can so easily amass wealth?
                        Syndicate "Join us and we'll make you rich."
                        RD "Been there, done that. Nice system. Thanks."

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                        • #27
                          I was responding to the idea that the Syndicate wouldn't want to ward stock exchanges, in order to lure RDs in.


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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Dataweaver View Post
                            Perhaps. On the other hand, the Syndicate is the least anti-RD of all of the Conventions, with the possible exception of the Void Engineers; they're more likely to try to co-opt RDs than to catch them.
                            Well, you need to catch them in order to co-opt them.

                            If you expect RDs are just going to walk into Syndicate offices with their CVs in hand, well...I don't think that's going to be very efficient. Among other things because the Technocracy it's a secret organization, and mages who know about it w/o being part of it probably are already in a hostile faction.

                            The Syndicate needs to have ways to discover and target deviants. Isn't that what "catch" means in this context?
                            Last edited by Aleph; 02-01-2021, 10:54 AM.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by HorizonParty2021 View Post
                              What can the Syndicate use to coopt RDs if RDs can so easily amass wealth?
                              Syndicate "Join us and we'll make you rich."
                              RD "Been there, done that. Nice system. Thanks."
                              Well, while I don't think Syndicate should RDs allow to amass true fortunes before targeting them, your wording gave me a cruel idea.

                              Been there, done that...migth be on point. Money can chage hands - it was made to do so.

                              With Data, Entropy and PU even big fortunes can end bankrupt and liquidated. Let's remember that financial warfare it's the speciality of the Syndicate - a single rich RD most likely won't be able to oppose them. Infractors will see fortune eludes them. And most rich people can't stand being less rich, much less being actually poor. Money and privilege it's quite the drug, one day in a poor man's shoes and even magicians migth break.

                              Now, this isn't the way the Syndicate likes to work. Forcing the enemy into submission it's more a NWO thing to do, and that's why room 101 it's so important.

                              But it's still feasible, and I wouldn't put the Syndicate above such a tactic...after being *rejected*. Because we know what happens to the RDs that accept to work with the money club, but I don't think refusing it's really an option here. Especially not for a mage known to use prognostication to win at the "casino"
                              Last edited by Aleph; 02-01-2021, 05:50 PM.

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